Illegal substitution?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Iowa has a number of games (perhaps it's quarters) a player may participate in a season. But that is to limit a player from playing all the games at multiple levels. For instance, a freshman player could not play the entire season with both freshman and varsity. He would exceed the maximum number of games/quarters played. However, this stipulation has nothing to do with the on-court officials. This is taken care of administratively by the ADs and state associations. Unless something has changed since I was "playing" a decade ago

-Josh

I remember this from my playing days. IIRC, if you played in three quarters of one game, it counted as a game. It might have been two, but I'm not sure.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

Kansas just changed the rule this year to 6 quarters. 4 quarters is rough for small schools with few players.

Wasn't Kansas 5 quarters before this year, not 4? It was as recently as the early 2000s.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The OhioHSAA has a quarters per regular season rule. The number of quarters permitted during the regular season for 9th grade thru 12th grade is ninety (90) quarters. A player may not play in more that five (5) quarters per day. If a player plays in a 6th quarter in one day, it is a technical foul charged to the team when discovered and the player is disqualified from further play for the remainder of the day. An OhioHSAA Special Game Report is not required to be filed by the game officials.

A long time ago but after the game had moved on from peach baskets to twine nets, the OhioHSAA had a quarter per day and game per regular season rule. Without going into specifics, if a player played in five (5) quarters in one day, he was considered to have playe in two (2) games in one day. The penalty was a flagrant technical foul charged to the player (an OhioHSAA Special Game Report had to be filed by the game officials) and even if the player was held out of a game later in the season so as to not violate the number of games per regular season, the player was still ineligible for post-season play because he had played in two game in one day during the regular season. I cannot ever remember a player being in violation when I played nor since I became an official; and I cannot I remember a player being disqualified under the current rules even though I am sure that disqualifications have no doubt occured under both the ancient and modern rules.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

So I guess Ohio makes their officials police this, too. That makes 2. Any other states put this on the officials?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Except maybe for Utah. No quarter limitations here.

I suggest that you check into that. You may find that Utah has a per day game limit, which is essentially the same thing. It will probably say something like no student-athlete may participate in more than one contest per day, with the exception of a tournament.

I seriously doubt that Utah allows a kid to play in the jv game and the varsity game that follows.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The NFHS book doesn't mention anything about quarters played. It would have to be a state rule, n'est-ce pas?

Fixed it for you. (Aren't you supposed to be Canadian? )

Oh, and I think the correct answer would be "si."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So I guess Ohio makes their officials police this, too. That makes 2. Any other states put this on the officials?

Snaqs:

This really isn't a problem to handle in Ohio. Games are scheduled one of the following ways: (1) A freshmen game as a stand alone game; (2) Jr. Varsity/Varsity DH; or (3) Freshmen/Jr. Varsity/Varsity triple-header.

In Items (2) and (3) the same scorekeepers handle the books for all of the games and they keep track of the quarters played. The scorekeeper marks the number of quarters that the player has already played in the previous game(s). It really isn't very difficult.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqs:

This really isn't a problem to handle in Ohio. Games are scheduled one of the following ways: (1) A freshmen game as a stand alone game; (2) Jr. Varsity/Varsity DH; or (3) Freshmen/Jr. Varsity/Varsity triple-header.

In Items (2) and (3) the same scorekeepers handle the books for all of the games and they keep track of the quarters played. The scorekeeper marks the number of quarters that the player has already played in the previous game(s). It really isn't very difficult.

MTD, Sr.

Fair enough, I would have expected some streamlined process to handle it and track it. The fact is, it's one more thing for the officials to deal with. I prefer the idea of letting the state deal with it, and the incentive is stronger with the possibility of having to forefeit a game in which they used an ineligible player.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fair enough, I would have expected some streamlined process to handle it and track it. The fact is, it's one more thing for the officials to deal with. I prefer the idea of letting the state deal with it, and the incentive is stronger with the possibility of having to forefeit a game in which they used an ineligible player.

Snaqs:

I still don't why you find it a problem. The game officials only have to impose the penalty if a player plays in a 6th quarter in one day. There are no game reports to be filed, the game officials are not involved in any of the record keeping, that is a school's repsosibility. I don't even worry about it. It is a scorekeeper's responsibility to keep track of the quarters played just like he would keep track of a player's fouls committed in a game.

MTD, Sr.

[budjones05]

Missouri, You can only play 6 quarters a night. If you played 7, the officials do not have authority to penalize a team for exceeding the quarters allowed. I think the schools must send a letter to MSHSAA.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Snaqs:

I still don't why you find it a problem. The game officials only have to impose the penalty if a player plays in a 6th quarter in one day. There are no game reports to be filed, the game officials are not involved in any of the record keeping, that is a school's repsosibility. I don't even worry about it. It is a scorekeeper's responsibility to keep track of the quarters played just like he would keep track of a player's fouls committed in a game.

MTD, Sr.

I can see how it wouldn't really be a problem. It's not like you have to watch for it like you watch for fouls. I just personally think it's best left out of the officials' hands. If I was in Ohio, I'd get used to it, though. Of course, I doubt you really ever have to deal with it.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I suggest that you check into that. You may find that Utah has a per day game limit, which is essentially the same thing. It will probably say something like no student-athlete may participate in more than one contest per day, with the exception of a tournament.

I seriously doubt that Utah allows a kid to play in the jv game and the varsity game that follows.

You'd be surprised. I did a small school JV/V DH last year and noticed one girl sitting in the stands, in uniform, during the JV game. I asked at a break about why she was there. The answer?

There must be at least one player difference between the JV and V teams. This school fields the same team for both games. But one girl sits out the JV game, another sits out the V game.

BTW, it's not that unusual at larger schools for a single player to play in the sophomore, JV and V games in a single day. Sometimes most of the soph. and JV games. It seems the reason for having sophomore basketball at all is to give the kids more playing time.

[jdmara]

Stupid question...For states that have a per quarter limit per day, since OT is statistically an extension of the 4th quarter, does OT count as additional time in the fourth quarter or does it count as a quarter played? For instance, if a player plays all four of the first quarters and the first OT, can they play the second OT?

I personally don't know the rule in Iowa (other than I've already mentioned) and I hope I never have to worry about it. I think it's something that should be left up to game administration.

-Josh

Edit:

Here are the Iowa Eligibility rules, for what it's worth

"5. The limitation rule applies to individual teams representing the school and individual player participation on those teams. No
individual player may play in more than 21 games during the season, exclusive of tournaments.
6. An individual may play in six quarters in any one day.
7. Player participation in three (3) quarters constitutes a game. Participation in three (3), or any subsequent number of
quarters up to a total of six, in one (1) day, will constitute one (1) game being charged against the individual season
limitation rule. (Participants may not be in more than two (2) games in one day.)
EXAMPLE:
(a) Player A plays in two or three quarters of the first game of a sophomore/junior varsity doubleheader and three
quarters in the second game. EFFECT Charged with one game.
(b) Player A plays in one quarter in the first game and two quarters in the second game. EFFECT Charged with one
game.
(c) Player B plays in one quarter of a Friday game and three quarters of a Saturday game. EFFECT Charged with one
game for Saturday and no games for Friday.
(d) Player C plays in four (4) quarters of the sophomore/JV game and two (2) quarters in the varsity game. EFFECT
Charged with one game.
(e) Player B plays in three or more quarters on Friday and three or more on Saturday. EFFECT Charged with two
games, one each day.
(f) Player A plays in three games on Friday. EFFECT Violation; forfeiture of third game. The important thing to
remember is that an individual can play a maximum of six quarters in one day; participation in three or more
quarters in a given day constitutes a game. Exception: When an invitational tournament is played on a Saturday
with each team playing two games, the six-quarter limitation will be waived."