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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 10:21pm
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You make the call

This play occurred in a recent game. A player committed a foul in the first quarter. When the foul was reported the official scorer told the referee that the player had a different number recorded in the official scorebook. When the coach of the offended team was notified he was upset because he said he gave his book to the official scorer. The official scorer said he got the numbers of the players from a program provided. A team technical was assessed the team for having to change a number in the book to the number the player was actually wearing.
Even though the coach was adamant about providing the scorer with their scorebook the technical stood. Even though it was a mistake by the official scorer, it is still the coach's responsibility to make sure the numbers are recorded correctly.
Rule 10-2 says the violation will be called when it occurs. Was the call correct in this case?
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 10:24pm
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gabbref, we should combine our posts!
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 10:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
This play occurred in a recent game. A player committed a foul in the first quarter. When the foul was reported the official scorer told the referee that the player had a different number recorded in the official scorebook. When the coach of the offended team was notified he was upset because he said he gave his book to the official scorer. The official scorer said he got the numbers of the players from a program provided. A team technical was assessed the team for having to change a number in the book to the number the player was actually wearing.
Even though the coach was adamant about providing the scorer with their scorebook the technical stood. Even though it was a mistake by the official scorer, it is still the coach's responsibility to make sure the numbers are recorded correctly.
Rule 10-2 says the violation will be called when it occurs. Was the call correct in this case?
It is the coach's responsibility to provide the scorer with an accurate roster with players and numbers. It's not his responsibility to make sure the scorer records them properly.

No, the call was not correct.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 10:47pm
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Case book back me up?
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 08:44am
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Rule 10-2 states the technical is called when the violation occurs. There was a play in the case book or Referee magazine or someplace with this situation and the explanation was that regardless of how the names and numbers got in the official scorebook the coach still has to make sure all is correct. Where does it say it is not the coach's responsibility to mae sure the scorer records them properly. I tab my rule book and case book on some situations and would like to on this one.

Thanks
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 09:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
There was a play in the case book or Referee magazine or someplace with this situation and the explanation was that regardless of how the names and numbers got in the official scorebook the coach still has to make sure all is correct.
Can you find the situation and transcribe it here? I think that'd be a very interesting one for all to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
Where does it say it is not the coach's responsibility to mae sure the scorer records them properly.
More importantly, where does it say it is the coach's responsibility? All I can find is the following:

NFHS Rule 3-2-1:
At least 10 minutes prior to the scheduled start time, each team shall supply the official scorer with the name and number of each team member and designate the five starting players. Failure to comply results in a technical foul.

I, too, was always under the assumption that it was the head coach's responsibility to make sure the players are correct in the book, but now I'm not so sure. It looks like they've fulfilled their responsibility once they tell the scorer who is on the roster tonight, and who is starting. The rule book says nothing about verification.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 11:00am
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our chapter has us take the official book to each hc at the 10 minute mark in pregame and have them check it and sign their page. if something like this occurred, it would be a "t".
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
Rule 10-2 states the technical is called when the violation occurs. There was a play in the case book or Referee magazine or someplace with this situation and the explanation was that regardless of how the names and numbers got in the official scorebook the coach still has to make sure all is correct. Where does it say it is not the coach's responsibility to mae sure the scorer records them properly. I tab my rule book and case book on some situations and would like to on this one.
10-2 addresses substitutes entering the game. If you've got a rule or case play that states the coach must make sure the score book is correct, please post it.

My rule book says the coach is required to furnish the scorer with a roster with all player names and numbers. (10-1-1) He has now asked the scorer to add these names to the score book, prior to the 10 minute mark, as prescribed by rule. There's nothing that says he is required to make sure the scorer does his/her job.
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Last edited by BktBallRef; Mon Dec 22, 2008 at 11:12am.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
10-2 addresses substitutes entering the game. If you've got a rule or case play that states the coach must make sure the score book is correct, please post it.

My rule book says the coach is required to furnish the scorer with a roster with all player names and numbers. (10-1-1) He has now asked the scorer to add these names to the score book, prior to the 10 minute mark, as prescribed by rule. There's nothing that says he is required to make sure the scorer does his/her job.
To add to what Tony said, in the OP, the scorer ADMITS that he/she did not use the book the coach provided, but used some other roster from a program or something. No way this is a T on the coach.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 01:47pm
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Originally Posted by cubsfanllw View Post
our chapter has us take the official book to each hc at the 10 minute mark in pregame and have them check it and sign their page. if something like this occurred, it would be a "t".
I like what your chapter has their officials do. Makes sense and is no trouble. Will apply in the future.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 01:48pm
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Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
I like what your chapter has their officials do. Makes sense and is no trouble. Will apply in the future.
I disagree, there is no rules basis for it.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaBBRef View Post
Even though it was a mistake by the official scorer, it is still the coach's responsibility to make sure the numbers are recorded correctly.
Rule 10-2 says the violation will be called when it occurs. Was the call correct in this case?

Simple Solution, "Coach let me see that book or list."
if the number do not match then no T if they do match so coach you gave us the wrong info. I have to give you the "T".

I am not going to penalize the team if the offical scorer can not read. I do not think any assignor or conference commissioner would argue with that interpretation.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 02:45pm
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I hear the word "coach" being tossed around quite a bit during this discussion. Just for clarity sake:

There is no requirement that the head coach specifically be the person to turn in the roster. The rule only states that the "team" is required to do it.

More importantly, it is not a "coach T" if the submitted roster is late or wrong. It is only a team technical. It does not count against the coach's total toward ejection. The coach does not get seatbelted for this.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 02:52pm
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try this

"Coach, would you like to double check the official book for starters and player numbers?"

Its on them if they choose not to.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 02:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls View Post
"Coach, would you like to double check the official book for starters and player numbers?"

Its on them if they choose not to.
There's no rule requirement for them to do so. You don't have rule backing to hold it against them later. They have done what the rule book said they needed to; you can't add extra responsibilities.
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