IAABO Refresher Exam

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I remember your post, and your generous offer, and the fact that I was looking forward to your update, but I can't find your post, even using the Advanced Search function.

So, why don't you start with this question? I thought that one of the guidelines for goaltending was that it had to be a try. I got this one wrong, and, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!":

2008-09 IAABO Refresher Exam
7. A-1, from behind the 3 point line, throws the ball toward his/her basket for a catch and dunk. The ball is on its downward flight outside the cylinder above the ring level and in the judgment of the official has a chance of entering the basket when A-2 catches the ball and dunks it. The official rules this is goaltending and disallows the basket. Is the official correct?
7. Yes Rule 5 Section 2 Art 1; Rule 4 Section 22, Rule 9 Section 12

To me, throwing the ball toward the basket for a catch and dunk is a pass, not a try.

BillyMac:

That is a good one. I have been lax this year in my preseason reading and was going over the Exam Thursday night while watching Andy go through swim practice and the the answer to the question hit me in the face like a cement block. It is on my list of questions that I will discuss with Roger.

MTD, Sr.

[shishstripes]

Mark,

One that we discussed at length on the NFHS forum was:

55. A-1’s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?

55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2

One member who "spoke IABBO" said that the question denoted the physical location that the ball was over but location could also be where A1 had the ball in PC when the pass was made, which would mean the official in the question was correct.

Any thoughts?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

55. A-1’s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?
55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2
Any thoughts?

4-4-3: A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last
in contact with a player or the court.

[shishstripes]

I understand the rule and applying it, I say the answer is wrong. Official should inbound at the location of the ball at the time of the fouls, which is where A1 had it last. Should the question be read differently?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

I understand the rule and applying it, I say the answer is wrong. Official should inbound at the location of the ball at the time of the fouls, which is where A1 had it last. Should the question be read differently?

As long as you understand the rule (and you seem to), the only people who should care whether the question should be worded differently are those considering whether to use the question next year.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2

One member who "spoke IABBO" said that the question denoted the physical location that the ball was over but location could also be where A1 had the ball in PC when the pass was made, which would mean the official in the question was correct.

There is no way the IAABO answer is correct. The question tests two things: what happens when you have a double foul (Answer: Point of interruption [4-36-2a]) and who has control when the ball is being passed between teammates (Answer: team control remains with Team A, [4-12-2]).

The language from the question: "The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred" is nearly verbatim from the rule cited for point of interruption: a throw-in to the team that was in control "at a spot nearest to where the ball was located" when play was interrupted.

If the question sought to test knowledge of "ball location," then the answer key would have cited 4-4-3: a ball in flight retains the location of the player who last touched it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

If the question sought to test knowledge of "ball location," then the answer key would have cited 4-4-3: a ball in flight retains the location of the player who last touched it.

Agree. Poorly worded question. Can it be fixed?

55. A-1’s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was, midway between A-2, and A-3, when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?

55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2; 4-4-3:

How's that. Better?

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. Poorly worded question. Can it be fixed?

Sure. Change the answer from "no" to "yes." Everything else is correct. If the test sought to test knowledge of "ball location" then your fix is fine.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

Sure. Change the answer from "no" to "yes." Everything else is correct. If the test sought to test knowledge of "ball location" then your fix is fine.

With my "fix" the correct answer should be no. The official should have awarded the ball to Team A at the spot closest to A-1, not midway between A-2 and A-3, because a ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

If you're not familiar with IAABO Refresher Exams, they test all kinds (plural) of rule knowledge in one question, and in many cases the answer hinges on only one word, change that one word, and the answer changes. Sometimes the question is about the rule, sometimes it's about a definition in the rule, sometimes it's about the penalty, sometimes it's about where the penalty (throwin) will be enforced. I hate these exams!!!

[BayStateRef]

IAABO had to publish an "errata" to four questions on this year's refresher exam. With that proven record for errors, I am more likely to believe a typographical error than anything else.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

That is a good one. I have been lax this year in my preseason reading and was going over the Exam Thursday night while watching Andy go through swim practice and the the answer to the question hit me in the face like a cement block. It is on my list of questions that I will discuss with Roger.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr: Could you take a look at these two questions also:

36 Team A is awarded a free throw. B-1 and B-2 are occupying the marked lane spaces closest to the end line. The official rules that B-1 and B-2 are occupying the proper lane spaces. Is the official correct?
36. No Rule 8 Section 1 Art 4b.c.d
According to 8-1-4c, the first marked lane spaces on each side of the lane, above and adjacent to the neutral-zone marks, shall be occupied by opponents of the free thrower. 8-1-4b states that the lane areas from the end line up to, and including, the neutral-zone marks, shall remain vacant. Question 36 clearly states marked lane “spaces” closest to the endline, not marked lane “areas”, so, in my opinion, the official was correct, and the correct answer to question 36 should be yes.

74. A-1 and B-1 begin to fight while the ball is live. A-6 and A-7 leave the bench to enter the playing court. B-6 also enters the playing court and begins fighting with A-6. The official rules a flagrant technical foul on A-6, A-7 and B-6, charges team A with three team fouls, team B with two team fouls, charges the coach of team A with two indirect technical fouls, team B’s coach with one indirect technical foul, awards team B two free throws, followed by the ball for a division line throw-in. Is the official correct?
74. Yes Rule 10 Section 4 Art 5 Penalty; Rule 10 Section 4 Art 1g; Rule 10 Section 6 Penalty 8a (1) 8b (1) (2)
The official, in this very complicated situation, appears to penalize everything that occurred correctly: flagrant technical foul on A-6, A-7 and B-6, team A charged with three team fouls, team B with two team fouls, coach of team A charged with two indirect technical fouls, team B’s coach with one indirect technical foul, awards team B two free throws, followed by the ball for a division line throw-in. However, the official did not penalize "A-1 and B-1", who started this whole mess by fighting while the ball was live, with flagrant double personal fouls, so, in my opinion, the official was incorrect, and the correct answer should be no.

Thanks. Merry Christmas.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr: Could you take a look at these two questions also:

36 Team A is awarded a free throw. B-1 and B-2 are occupying the marked lane spaces closest to the end line. The official rules that B-1 and B-2 are occupying the proper lane spaces. Is the official correct?
36. No Rule 8 Section 1 Art 4b.c.d
According to 8-1-4c, the first marked lane spaces on each side of the lane, above and adjacent to the neutral-zone marks, shall be occupied by opponents of the free thrower. 8-1-4b states that the lane areas from the end line up to, and including, the neutral-zone marks, shall remain vacant. Question 36 clearly states marked lane “spaces” closest to the endline, not marked lane “areas”, so, in my opinion, the official was correct, and the correct answer to question 36 should be yes.

74. A-1 and B-1 begin to fight while the ball is live. A-6 and A-7 leave the bench to enter the playing court. B-6 also enters the playing court and begins fighting with A-6. The official rules a flagrant technical foul on A-6, A-7 and B-6, charges team A with three team fouls, team B with two team fouls, charges the coach of team A with two indirect technical fouls, team B’s coach with one indirect technical foul, awards team B two free throws, followed by the ball for a division line throw-in. Is the official correct?
74. Yes Rule 10 Section 4 Art 5 Penalty; Rule 10 Section 4 Art 1g; Rule 10 Section 6 Penalty 8a (1) 8b (1) (2)
The official, in this very complicated situation, appears to penalize everything that occurred correctly: flagrant technical foul on A-6, A-7 and B-6, team A charged with three team fouls, team B with two team fouls, coach of team A charged with two indirect technical fouls, team B’s coach with one indirect technical foul, awards team B two free throws, followed by the ball for a division line throw-in. However, the official did not penalize "A-1 and B-1", who started this whole mess by fighting while the ball was live, with flagrant double personal fouls, so, in my opinion, the official was incorrect, and the correct answer should be no.

Thanks. Merry Christmas.

Both answers seem right to me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Both answers seem right to me.

How can the official be correct when he failed to penalize the two players who started the fight?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How can the official be correct when he failed to penalize the two players who started the fight?

The crux of the question is about how to penalize bench personel who enter the court during a fight and how the coach is penalized, and how many FT's are taken as a result of those actions. The penalty for the initial fight is assumed and is included in the total foul counts.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The penalty for the initial fight is assumed and is included in the total foul counts.

As Felix Unger said, "Never ASSUME, because when you ASSUME, you make an *** of U and ME."

As far as I know, the only pre-assumption for the exam is written on the top: “In the act of shooting’’ on this examination means the ball is still in the player’s hand.