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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 08:59pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Someone else posted something very similar to this thread within the past week or so. Search for it.

Then, get rid of the "2 steps" (or 1 step or 1.5 steps) from your vocabulary -- whether you're a fan, a player, a coach or an official. Think of it in terms of "moving the pivot foot in excess of prescribed limits."
Or, if you insist in still thinking of it in the number of steps, the first one occurs when the ball is caught if either foot is on the ground (which, if you go that way, will lead you to the actual definition of traveling and the pivot foot).
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 12:25am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
WOW! You're right! Knowing it was Kobe, I just assumed the play was illegal.
All is not lost, though. Dial up some Lebron video. You will see a travel soon enough.
Yeah, Lebron James is the worst traveler in the NBA, and he gets away with it every time. Amazes me how hard everyone rides on that guy's broomstick. Kobe doesn't travel, or palm the ball like Wade.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 12:30am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Skipping is not allowed. A player may lift the pivot foot, but may not put it back down. Your example above has a player bringing his pivot foot back down. If he's skipping on his non-pivot foot, it's still illegal as it constitutes a jump, which is a travel upon landing.

Furthermore, the rule that allows the commonly perceived two steps works when a player picks up the dribble in the air, just after leaving the floor. Next foot down is pivot, and the foot after that can come down one time before jumping for the shot.

FWIW, I believe the rule is the same in the NBA, but I'm not sure.
This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 12:32am
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Originally Posted by greatgamer View Post
Yeah, Lebron James is the worst traveler in the NBA, and he gets away with it every time.
I sometimes tell the captains in the pregame: Guys, every time you watch Lebron James on tv, you learn a new move (pause) which will be illegal in this game tonight. I think at least some of them get it.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 02:07am
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Originally Posted by greatgamer View Post
This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.
That is where you're wrong...the foot on the floor when the ball is caught, in all but one case (not this case), is, by definition, the pivot foot.

In fact, this case is a travel the moment his right foot comes back down...don't even have to wait for the left foot to touch.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 05:27am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The play was perfectly legal. Pause the video at 22 seconds. When he ends his dribble by touching the ball with both hands, his left foot is clearly not on the floor. His right foot is his pivot foot. He strides with that foot on the court and steps with his left foot. He jumps off his left foot without ever putting his right foot (pivot) back down and shoots.

There is no traveling violation here.
I was assuming that the play was as described by the OP. But you're right. The most important thing is that the rules are the same for all rule sets.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgamer View Post
This is maddening trying to describe this on the forums. I wish there was a player who did this, on video.

Correction: He is not moving his pivot foot.

I repeat, he is not moving his pivot foot.

Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.
Here's the deal. If he ended his last dribble with either foot on the floor; THAT FOOT IS HIS PIVOT FOOT. If he jumps off this foot, it's a travel when he lands. The only way he can jump off this foot and land with the ball legally is if he lands on both feet at the same time.

If he ended his dribble with both feet in the air, the first foot down is the pivot foot, unless he jumps off of it. If he jumps off it, he must land with both feet simultaneously. If he does as you suggest, it's a travel.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 04:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgamer View Post
Everybody keeps saying "pivot foot THIS" and "pivot foot THAT." He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT, skipped, caught the ball and landed on his RIGHT FOOT (THIS IS NOW HIS PIVOT), and then took another step with his LEFT FOOT and shot the ball.
You can not call it until you know what it is,
if it is a pivot foot, it is his pivot foot and he can not pick it up and put it back down on the floor with out releasing the ball on a pass or a try for goal?

See how simple that is.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 05:01pm
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I'm a bit vague about exactly what is meant by "skipped." If greatgamer could describe the play again and avoid that term, but just tell us, in order, when each foot left and returned to the floor, and when the ball was caught, I'm sure we could straighten this out.

Also, the crucial question is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgamer
He did NOT move his pivot foot. He made his last dribble with his RIGHT FOOT.....
With his right foot WHERE?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 05:14pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I'm a bit vague about exactly what is meant by "skipped." If greatgamer could describe the play again and avoid that term, but just tell us, in order, when each foot left and returned to the floor, and when the ball was caught, I'm sure we could straighten this out.

Also, the crucial question is:



With his right foot WHERE?
Good point, 'cause if he truly dribbled with his right foot; that's a kick.

The picture in my head is of a player hopping on one foot.
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