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-   -   Multiple pre-game dunks. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/50407-multiple-pre-game-dunks.html)

referee99 Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:43pm
Two great quotes in one post? Sweet.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 559376)
"it's your call, and by the way, the rulebook will not support you either."

"I am trying to keep you in this game, its a better game with you here."
I'll be stealing both of those, thank you!

Amesman Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 559381)
It's possible, even if you head directly for the coach, that the knucklehead would do it again before you got to the coach.
Good point. To get back to what I think Skarecrow was alluding to, then do you just keep a mental scorecard as you observe and then let the coaches and book know at 0:00 who dunked, how many times, etc. (these things can come in bunches if it starts happening at all), why coach will be collecting splinters all night, etc.? And the mechanic?

Adam Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:08pm
Honestly, I'm with Rich on the mechanics. Don't know and have a hard time caring.

If I see it, I'll tell the player when i get his attention. I'll also get his number at that time, and walk over to the coach and let him know. I'll then tell the scorer and the other coach. Unless someone can give me a compellling reason to do it differently.

Rich Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 559391)
Honestly, I'm with Rich on the mechanics. Don't know and have a hard time caring.

If I see it, I'll tell the player when i get his attention. I'll also get his number at that time, and walk over to the coach and let him know. I'll then tell the scorer and the other coach. Unless someone can give me a compellling reason to do it differently.
I'm waiting for someone to make an argument that maybe someone on the other team might dunk and only the first dunk would get penalized. :D

But that's not my problem. I am most likely (unless I can't get away with it) going to try to prevent starting the game with a technical, but if someone slams one home I'll take care of it and by extension prevent any more from happening.

With my luck, this will all happen tonight.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman (Post 559387)
Good point. To get back to what I think Skarecrow was alluding to, then do you just keep a mental scorecard as you observe and then let the coaches and book know at 0:00 who dunked, how many times, etc. (these things can come in bunches if it starts happening at all), why coach will be collecting splinters all night, etc.? And the mechanic?
No. You tell the coach right away. That doesn't mean that the second kid in line won't dunk before you can get to the coach, or that the first kid won't come through the line again.

icallfouls Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:38pm
Depending on the game, I have even gone to game management, and told them to let both coaches know that the officials will be on court at 15:00, in the hopes that some preventative officiating and preventative coaching will prevail.

Seems to work pretty well.

If you have good game management they will post people near the area where the officials come onto the floor and notify the teams that the officials will be taking the floor.

Adam Thu Dec 18, 2008 01:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 559404)
If you have good game management they will post people near the area where the officials come onto the floor and notify the teams that the officials will be taking the floor.
Nonsense. I could just as easily claim that if you have good coaching, it won't matter.

The fact is, it's regional. Around here, kids just expect that they won't be able to dunk during warmups. If they want to do it anyway, they should look and see if we're there. We always look the same pre-game; black pants, black shoes, black jacket, standing at or around half-court away from the table.

Ignats75 Thu Dec 18, 2008 02:28pm
As usual, Snaqwells gets it right.

icallfouls Thu Dec 18, 2008 02:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 559407)
Nonsense. I could just as easily claim that if you have good coaching, it won't matter.

The fact is, it's regional. Around here, kids just expect that they won't be able to dunk during warmups. If they want to do it anyway, they should look and see if we're there. We always look the same pre-game; black pants, black shoes, black jacket, standing at or around half-court away from the table.
Snaqs, you are misunderstanding what I said. I said that if you have good game management, they will take care of it. I was not saying go to them and tell them to deal with it. Some schools around here have people that take care of notifying the teams to stop their high flying acts just before we hit the floor. I am in no way saying this is something I do or recommend doing.

Man In Blue Thu Dec 18, 2008 03:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by icallfouls (Post 559404)
Depending on the game, I have even gone to game management, and told them to let both coaches know that the officials will be on court at 15:00, in the hopes that some preventative officiating and preventative coaching will prevail.

Seems to work pretty well.

If you have good game management they will post people near the area where the officials come onto the floor and notify the teams that the officials will be taking the floor.
So you are saying that if you come out and there is 15:30 on the clock you wouldn't call the T?

icallfouls Thu Dec 18, 2008 03:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Man In Blue (Post 559462)
So you are saying that if you come out and there is 15:30 on the clock you wouldn't call the T?
You are missing the point, that game management tells the players, coaches, whatever, that the officials are on their way. Therefore, the officials don't get the chance to see pregame dunks. They do this so that the teams don't get caught.

Yes, if pre-game dunking occurs while I am in the visual confines, it gets called.

jalons Thu Dec 18, 2008 08:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amesman (Post 559387)
Good point. To get back to what I think Skarecrow was alluding to, then do you just keep a mental scorecard as you observe and then let the coaches and book know at 0:00 who dunked, how many times, etc. (these things can come in bunches if it starts happening at all), why coach will be collecting splinters all night, etc.? And the mechanic?
I have been taught to have the official observing that team speak with the player who dunked and get his jersey number in case he is wearing a warm-up shirt immediately, inform the player who dunked of the consequences of his actions, and then inform the coach of the "good" news.

I've only had this happen one time. We handled the situation this way and everything ran smoothly. Of course next time could be the total opposite.

BillyMac Thu Dec 18, 2008 09:00pm
Specific, Or General, Mechanic ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 559327)
You might wish to refresh yourself on the proper mechanic for handling a pregame dunk.
Nevadaref: I understand the rule, and the various permutations of double, false double, seat belt, ejections, etc., but I'm not aware of any specific NFHS mechanics for pregame dunks. Are you saying to treat it like any other technical foul, whistle, fist, etc.? If not, can you refresh us on the proper mechanics for this specific play, either NFHS, or NCAA?

Nevadaref Fri Dec 19, 2008 01:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 559553)
Nevadaref: I understand the rule, and the various permutations of double, false double, seat belt, ejections, etc., but I'm not aware of any specific NFHS mechanics for pregame dunks. Are you saying to treat it like any other technical foul, whistle, fist, etc.? If not, can you refresh us on the proper mechanics for this specific play, either NFHS, or NCAA?
It has been a while since this came up, so I don't recall where I read it, but it was published somewhere.

The procedure given was:
No whistle, inform team member, inform coach, inform table crew.

I'll see if I can locate the source.

Nevadaref Fri Dec 19, 2008 02:33am
I'm not very good with the search function on this forum, but I did find this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 275833)
We tell all of our officials in a pre-season meeting how we want them to handle pre-game dunks. We want it called uniformly in all games; that way nobody has any complaints:
- a pre-game dunk is never ignored. It must be called.
- Do not sound your whistle, but immediately go and tell the dunker that he has just earned himself a technical foul.
- Now go the dunker's head coach and immediately inform him/her the number of their player that just received the dunking "T". Also inform the head coach that he/she will also be charged with an indirect "T" and has lost the right to use the coaching box for the entire game.
- Inform the scorer - get the player "T" and indirect "T" to the coach entered in the score book. Also make sure that one foul gets charged towards the first-half bonus and the scorer knows how to set the AP arrow after the free throws for the "T".
- Inform the opposing coach that his team will start the game with 2 free throws and a throw-in at center.

In your situation, there ain't much you can do if the officials on the game choose to ignore it. Just shake your head and forget it. Not a bad idea to make it part of your own pre-game though so your crew gets it right.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 23rd, 2005 at 06:39 PM]


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