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Multiple pre-game dunks.
Saw this tonight in a BV game. During pre-game warm ups official says that two visiting players dunked, and one of them dunked twice. He said it would count as two personal fouls on A1 and one personal foul on A2. Coach would lose box, and Team B would start the game with 6 throws.
Is this right? |
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The fouls are all technical fouls. The proper terminology is PLAYER technical foul. Instead of saying "personal" you should write "individual," but I'm sure that your meaning was the same. A2 is disqualifed for being charged with two player technical fouls. He doesn't get to play tonight. A1 gets one and yes that counts towards his total of five for disqualification. The Head Coach gets three indirect technical fouls. He not only loses the coaching box, but is actually disqualified as well. Yes, Team B starts the game with 6 FTs and the ball at the division line. |
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How and when is the pre-game dunk technical administered? Shouldn't the officials immediately notify the coach and player of the technical, thereby averting any additional T's for the same dunking? I don't see how 3 T's for pre-game dunking can occur....
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"Excuse me, coach, may I have a word? Yeah, first of all, I just want to tell you that I admire what an athletic team you have. Yessir, you really got some guys with some hops. But, we do have a little problem with your guys throwing it down in the warmup. OK, we got 2 T's on #1, so he's gone. We also have a T on #2. So we're gonna start the game with 6 free throws and then the other guys are gonna have the ball. Oh, yeah, and one other thing, coach. You have to leave, too. You have a nice day, now." |
In the conference I work in we had something similar but not as crazy. 2 guys dunked, 1 from each team. The R went up to both coaches and said "we can either start with 2 t's one on both teams/players/coach or we can just say they cancel each other out" Wouldn't you know it they opted for option 2
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In WI we have to be on the floor at 20:00 before the game. 20:00 is a long time to stand there and let all the stretching you've done go to waste. It would be much nicer if we could come out right at 12:00 and do the captains' meeting right away. |
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To me, pregame dunking would be a nightmare. I'd deal with it, but I know then I would lose any chance of having a civil relationship with that kid's coach (right or wrong) for the night. I was working a boys game about 6 years ago when a kid from the visiting team went up and above the rim and kinda dropped the ball down from above without touching the rim. I almost had to whack the other coach who wouldn't quit asking me why that wasn't a technical and then tossed a rule book on the table while I was checking the books (it should've been a technical on the complaining coach, frankly, but I was stunned by this his pregame behavior -- didn't matter, the coach was properly whacked soon after the game started). Sue me, but it had better be a grab the rim, no doubt about it dunk for me to get involved other than me stepping up and reminding the player not to be stupid. |
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I agree with Nevada Ref. The R is a coward and has no place doing Varsity level work if he's going to set aside rules like that. I had a kid dunk in pregame right as we hit the court. (They didn't know we were there yet). I called him over and told him I wanted him to go tell his coach why the other team was going to start the game with two free throws and the ball and his coach has to sit all night. The look on his face was priceless. |
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The second and third dunks shouldn't have happened. If I'm going to call a technical foul for this, I'm digging my whistle out from inside my shirt and making everyone aware of what just happened. I sureashell am not going to allow a second and third dunk to happen. |
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I didn't say thats what I did. Thats what I told the kid he was going to have to do.
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Whistle when you come out?
Most guys in the association I used to work give a tweet when they walk out. Their rationale was that now the players know we are here and they will not dunk. I have never liked that, I think it brings undue attention to the crew. The players and coaches know not to dunk, penalize when necessary.
Anyone else blow the whistle when they eneter? |
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Had this situation several years ago, when I was starting to get V games, although we only had 2 dunks during warmups by the same player. This is more interesting than 3 in my opinion, because the team lost its best player, and kept one of the most difficult coaches in the game but required to sit the entire game.
My partner, R, had the T's on his end, I only saw one of them, the home team coach sees the whole thing. What made this more difficult is my experienced partner only wanted to give one T, and let the coach use the box. I looked at him and said "it's your call, and by the way, the rulebook will not support you either." Middle of the first qtr, his team commits a foul and we are shooting FT's, he is up, complaining about the call. I go over and remind him that he must coach from the seated position. His reply "who are you?", "why are you talking to me?" My reply, "I am trying to keep you in this game, its a better game with you here." From then on it was all gravy. It probably helped that he destroyed the home team anyway. The dunker went on to win a state championship, and an NCAA championship at Kansas. |
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Also, wondering what the response is to Skarecrow's: Still no answer to my question....Don't we IMMEDIATELY advise the coach? Why can we then have subsequent disqualifying T's called on the same player? Just wanna get it right ... |
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Two great quotes in one post? Sweet.
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Honestly, I'm with Rich on the mechanics. Don't know and have a hard time caring.
If I see it, I'll tell the player when i get his attention. I'll also get his number at that time, and walk over to the coach and let him know. I'll then tell the scorer and the other coach. Unless someone can give me a compellling reason to do it differently. |
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But that's not my problem. I am most likely (unless I can't get away with it) going to try to prevent starting the game with a technical, but if someone slams one home I'll take care of it and by extension prevent any more from happening. With my luck, this will all happen tonight. |
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Depending on the game, I have even gone to game management, and told them to let both coaches know that the officials will be on court at 15:00, in the hopes that some preventative officiating and preventative coaching will prevail.
Seems to work pretty well. If you have good game management they will post people near the area where the officials come onto the floor and notify the teams that the officials will be taking the floor. |
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The fact is, it's regional. Around here, kids just expect that they won't be able to dunk during warmups. If they want to do it anyway, they should look and see if we're there. We always look the same pre-game; black pants, black shoes, black jacket, standing at or around half-court away from the table. |
As usual, Snaqwells gets it right.
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Yes, if pre-game dunking occurs while I am in the visual confines, it gets called. |
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I've only had this happen one time. We handled the situation this way and everything ran smoothly. Of course next time could be the total opposite. |
Specific, Or General, Mechanic ???
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The procedure given was: No whistle, inform team member, inform coach, inform table crew. I'll see if I can locate the source. |
I'm not very good with the search function on this forum, but I did find this:
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I understood you perfectly. My point is that for most of us, game management has nothing to do with pregame dunks; nor should they. No one needs to tell the kids not to dunk, because their coaches have already taught them not to. I never implied you said we should let game admin deal with it or go to them. I simply disagree that "good game management" will make sure the kids stop playing naughty before I get on the court. They may do it where you are, but not here. GM greets us, lets us in the room, escorts us back to the room at half time and games end, and gets us water. Half the time, they do not see us walk onto the court. My beef is with the implication of your statement about good game management. It implies that game management that doesn't babysit the players for both teams isn't "good." Maybe it's a requirement for them in your area of the country, but I'd say your area is in the minority from what I can tell in this forum. |
Found it.
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10.3.3 SITUATION C: Fifteen minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks. Two minutes later A2 dunks. RULING: A1 and A2 are both charged with a technical foul. In addition, the head coach is charged indirectly with a technical foul for each act. The two fouls are team fouls for purpose of reaching the bonus. When dunking occurs during the pregame practice period the official notifies the team member and the head coach, but does not sound the whistle. If the game is played in a state which utilizes the optional coaching box, the coach should be informed that he/she has lost the privilege of using the coaching box for the entire game. |
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That Should Conclude This Episode Of "As The Basketball Turns" ...
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Moderators: Close the thread. Nevadaref has left the building, without blowing his whistle. |
Hold the phone...
Let's say Larry, Moe, Curly, and Shimp all dunk during pre-game warm-ups.
The head coach is ejected. Do all four indirects go to the head coach or does one go to the assistant who is now taking over for the head coach? |
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