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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 04:28pm
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Another question for those who officiate FIBA

I officiated for a few years under NCAA rules. Under those rules, it specified that a player needed a minimum of 0.4 seconds to catch and shoot. Thus when the clock stopped with less than 0.4; we would only allow a tip. If the player caught the inbounds pass, we would automically disallow a shot.

Now our region uses FIBA rules which makes no mention in the rulebook about a minimum amount of time to catch and shoot. For those who use FIBA around the world, does anyone use the 0.4 as a guideline just the same? I have been; but it occured to me that a coach could argue that point stating that it is not covered in FIBA rules.

And finally, a related question. A team was involved in a game where they were up by three points with 0.6 seconds left in regulation. The opposing team inbounded the ball and the player took one dribble before launching a half court shot which went in. The officials counted the basket. According to those who were there (I wasn't), the horn went off only after the release of the shot. Obviously, the timekeeper was asleep at the wheel. Had you been refereeing this game, would you have waved off the basket even though the shot was released before the horn?
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 05:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
I officiated for a few years under NCAA rules. Under those rules, it specified that a player needed a minimum of 0.4 seconds to catch and shoot. Thus when the clock stopped with less than 0.4; we would only allow a tip. If the player caught the inbounds pass, we would automically disallow a shot.

Now our region uses FIBA rules which makes no mention in the rulebook about a minimum amount of time to catch and shoot. For those who use FIBA around the world, does anyone use the 0.4 as a guideline just the same? I have been; but it occured to me that a coach could argue that point stating that it is not covered in FIBA rules.
There is no rule in FIBA that spcifically mentions (or even implies) that there is a minimum amount of time required for a player to attempt a shot. It is simply up to your observation of events. In other words, you can certainly use 0.4 as a guideline, I just wouldn't state that you are.

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Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
And finally, a related question. A team was involved in a game where they were up by three points with 0.6 seconds left in regulation. The opposing team inbounded the ball and the player took one dribble before launching a half court shot which went in. The officials counted the basket. According to those who were there (I wasn't), the horn went off only after the release of the shot. Obviously, the timekeeper was asleep at the wheel. Had you been refereeing this game, would you have waved off the basket even though the shot was released before the horn?
As I understand this situation the only possible actions according to FIBA rules are:
1) allow the shot
2) rule that the clock did not start on time and so have a "do-over" starting with the inbound and have 0.6 back up on the clock

This is one of those situations where neither option is going to be popular. Whenever I have a game that is down to the wire and has a stiuation like this I am VERY sure to discuss when to start the clock with the score bench...but obviously this will not prevent these situations from arising.
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 05:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R View Post
I officiated for a few years under NCAA rules. Under those rules, it specified that a player needed a minimum of 0.4 seconds to catch and shoot. Thus when the clock stopped with less than 0.4; we would only allow a tip. If the player caught the inbounds pass, we would automically disallow a shot.

Now our region uses FIBA rules which makes no mention in the rulebook about a minimum amount of time to catch and shoot. For those who use FIBA around the world, does anyone use the 0.4 as a guideline just the same? I have been; but it occured to me that a coach could argue that point stating that it is not covered in FIBA rules.
There's nothing in the rules nor in the official interpretations. So you have to judge the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay R
And finally, a related question. A team was involved in a game where they were up by three points with 0.6 seconds left in regulation. The opposing team inbounded the ball and the player took one dribble before launching a half court shot which went in. The officials counted the basket. According to those who were there (I wasn't), the horn went off only after the release of the shot. Obviously, the timekeeper was asleep at the wheel. Had you been refereeing this game, would you have waved off the basket even though the shot was released before the horn?
Probably I would cancel the shot, if it's apparent that the time has expired and the horn didn't sound by a time-keeping error.

There's nothing in the rules about time-keeping errors except 44.2.7 (time-keeping errors can be corrected at any time). So the referee, by 46.13 (elastic power) can decide about them.

Ciao
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 05:52pm
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Originally Posted by Oz Referee View Post
2) rule that the clock did not start on time and so have a "do-over" starting with the inbound and have 0.6 back up on the clock
I don't think there is any rule that allows you to have a "do-over". Either the time expired before the shot or the shot is good: that's what you have to decide.

Actually, in FIBA history there has been a famous "do-over", but I think our American friends prefer not to remember it. It was just ridicolous, IMO.

Ciao
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 06:05pm
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Originally Posted by eg-italy View Post
I don't think there is any rule that allows you to have a "do-over". Either the time expired before the shot or the shot is good: that's what you have to decide.

Actually, in FIBA history there has been a famous "do-over", but I think our American friends prefer not to remember it. It was just ridicolous, IMO.

Ciao
While I agree that there is nothing in the rules that specifically mentions a do-over, I would think that 46.13 allows it. However I completely agree that either allowing, or cancelling the basket is a better option.
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Old Sun Dec 14, 2008, 07:01pm
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Originally Posted by eg-italy View Post
Actually, in FIBA history there has been a famous "do-over", but I think our American friends prefer not to remember it. It was just ridicolous, IMO.

Ciao
Maybe the Russians call that play the "Mirakle on Kort".
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