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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 12:55pm
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Question The judge to make the call?

Not a Massachusetts official but looking on with great interest in the Hanshake Dispute. It was supposed to be heard in Worcester Thursday Morning. Anyone know what happened? And, Im just hoping that no other state goes along with this. There are some football conferences in College Ball that dont shake hands after the game because of the potential for craziness.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 06:14pm
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The state board's motion for a Preliminary Injunction was denied today. I have the full text of the judge's decision, but I think it's probably not appropriate to post it here.

The MIAA will probably file a motion to dismiss the case by December 15. The state board will have until December 22 to decide if we want to proceed with a full lawsuit.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 06:46pm
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Not Mass, but similar situation

If theres anyone on here from Wisconsin, maybe you could help me out.

When I was younger (say 10-15 years ago), I remember at basketball games that teams would be announced, starting with the visitor and alternating with the home. V1 would get announced, go over and shake the opposing coach's hand, then stand at mid-court. Then H1 would get announced, shake V coach's hand, go to midcourt and shake V1's hand, then each would go near their free-throw line and wait for their teammates to go through the same procedure. However in recent memory I don't see that anymore. And actually, the WIAA (WI governing body) states on its website that all five V players should be announced first, then all 5 H players, with no seeking out for handshakes.

Anyway, just curious if it's only Wisconsin that has done this, or if it is part of the NFHS manuals.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 08:39pm
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Shake, Shake, Shake; Shake, Shake, Shake; Shake Your Handy ...

Similar here in Connecticut, with the addition of the starters shaking the officials' hands also. More so with girls games, than boys. Varsity only. Pregame. We're in the locker room for post game activities.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 08:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias View Post
The state board's motion for a Preliminary Injunction was denied today. I have the full text of the judge's decision, but I think it's probably not appropriate to post it here.The MIAA will probably file a motion to dismiss the case by December 15. The state board will have until December 22 to decide if we want to proceed with a full lawsuit.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 09:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias View Post
The state board's motion for a Preliminary Injunction was denied today. I have the full text of the judge's decision, but I think it's probably not appropriate to post it here.

The MIAA will probably file a motion to dismiss the case by December 15. The state board will have until December 22 to decide if we want to proceed with a full lawsuit.
Okay, I'm confused. Could you please clarify who are the two contesting sides in this case and exactly what each is seeking?
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 09:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ;557576
If theres anyone on here from Wisconsin, maybe you could help me out.

When I was younger (say 10-15 years ago), I remember at basketball games that teams would be announced, starting with the visitor and alternating with the home. V1 would get announced, go over and shake the opposing coach's hand, then stand at mid-court. Then H1 would get announced, shake V coach's hand, go to midcourt and shake V1's hand, then each would go near their free-throw line and wait for their teammates to go through the same procedure. However in recent memory I don't see that anymore. And actually, the WIAA (WI governing body) states on its website that all five V players should be announced first, then all 5 H players, with no seeking out for handshakes.

Anyway, just curious if it's only Wisconsin that has done this, or if it is part of the NFHS manuals.


aschramm:

Pre-game "ceremonies" are not mandated or defined by the NFHS. Having said that, in Ohio and Michigan the pre-game "ceremonies" vary from school to school. Some altenate, some announce the visiting players first followed by the home players.

BUT the prohibition of player shaking hand before the game is sheer nonsense and stupid thinking by the powers that be. Since high school sports is supposed to be part of the educational process, then this type of prohibition is just plain stupid.

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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:16pm
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The judge ruled against the officials. Opening games in most leagues are Friday night. The officials have to hang around for the handshake.

After hearing arguments in a courtroom filled with referees, high school administrators and MIAA officials, Judge Christine M. Roach ruled against the MSBOA. During the two-hour hearing, the group argued that the new rule might cause physical harm, expose them to added liability and interfere with their contractual relations.

“The court respects the safety and reputation concerns expressed by the plaintiffs,” the judge wrote. “However, the court finds plaintiffs have not met their burden to demonstrate the required level of imminent, non speculative, substantial and irreparable harm to their physical, reputation, or financial interest …”

Worcester Telegram & Gazette Front Page News
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:21pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Okay, I'm confused. Could you please clarify who are the two contesting sides in this case and exactly what each is seeking?
The two sides: the Mass. State Basketball Officials Assn., which is the formal representative of the IAABO boards in Massachusetts in dealings with the state high school athletic association, the MIAA.

As has been discussed here a lot...the MIAA is requiring officials in all team sports to stay after the game and witness the post-game handshake. The basketball officials asked for a court order to stop this rule from taking effect. The judge ruled in favor of the MIAA.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:22pm
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Should I Take Off My Whistle, Since I Can't Use It ???

A lot of things bother me about officials in Massachusetts "hanging around" to observe the post game handshake activity, but the thing that bothers me the most, from what I understand, and I may be wrong here, is that in Massachusetts, the officials' jurisdiction ends with the approval of the final score, not after they have left the visual confines of the gym. So, they're standing there with no authority, other than to contact the state governing body later on.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:29pm
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The officials still have authority if a fight or other activity took place after the score is approved...but only under MIAA rules. The sanctions are strong -- game (or multiple game) suspensions for the participants.

The exact rule from the MIAA:
“Fighting and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will be within the authority of the official at all times at the contest site. The official’s authority extends to pre and post game oversight.” Implementation of this rule could have future consequences on the offender, but does not affect the final score.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
A lot of things bother me about officials in Massachusetts "hanging around" to observe the post game handshake activity, but the thing that bothers me the most, from what I understand, and I may be wrong here, is that in Massachusetts, the officials' jurisdiction ends with the approval of the final score, not after they have left the visual confines of the gym. So, they're standing there with no authority, other than to contact the state governing body later on.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:41pm
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Leave it to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to try to find a way to legislate sportsmanship.

This whole issue is one of the craziest things I have ever heard of with regards to high school officiating. Why stop there? Why not try to force it on the hundreds of colleges and their sports officials in the state as well? There's football, field hockey, lacrosse. Heck, why not Crew? That would be fun to watch at the end of the Head of the Charles.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 10:59pm
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Was the judge a friend of Billy Bulger? This is just nuts. It is like they want an incident to take place before they consider the problem.
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 11:02pm
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I don't especially like this (not that it matters, don't live in MA) because at the end of hotly contested games, you just stand there in the middle of the gym as an observer, with no authority like BillyMac just posted.

Even without this, I've never felt totally comfortable being out on the baseball diamond with teams exchanging handshakes. Sometimes when I'm base umpire I don't get in soon enough so the teams lineup and create a wall between me and the fence opening. Pretty awkward.

One more thing I don't like is the fact they put how much referees make per varsity contest. As if fans didn't already have enough "reasons" to not be happy with a performance, but to know how much they are making as well. (I typed with the quote to indicate that their reasons for heckling are almost always not valid)
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Old Thu Dec 11, 2008, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef View Post
The officials still have authority if a fight or other activity took place after the score is approved...but only under MIAA rules. The sanctions are strong -- game (or multiple game) suspensions for the participants.

The exact rule from the MIAA:
“Fighting and unsportsmanlike conduct penalties will be within the authority of the official at all times at the contest site. The official’s authority extends to pre and post game oversight.” Implementation of this rule could have future consequences on the offender, but does not affect the final score.


BayStateRef:

The judge's statement that says the "official's (sic) authority extends to post-game oversight" proves that he has not read the NFHS Basketball Rules regarding the game officials authority. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that he is not a sports official either. It is easy for this judge to put game officials in harms' way because he sits behind a large wood bar of justice protected by bailiffs and other court security personnel. I can assure you, that if he was to assume the game officials post-game duties, that the first time anybody accosted him he would do an 180 degree turn on his ruling.

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