Make the call

[tomegun]

From our JUCO quiz:

A1 ends his dribble and cannot find anyone to whom to pass the ball, so to avert having a five-second closely guarded violation called, A1 intentionally throws the ball against B1. A1 catches the ball and starts another dribble. The official rules this a double dribble. The coach inquires about the call and the official informs the coach that voluntarily throwing the ball against another player is illegal. Is the official correct?

[cmathews]

I say the official made an error in judgement, but that is just my opinion.....please enlighten us

[Raymond]

I see nothing in the rulebook that prohibits it. I go with rule 9-7.1c.

[Jurassic Referee]

Legal. NCAA rule 9-7-1(c)--"A player shall not dribble a second time after the player's first dribble has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of a pass or fumble that has then touched or been touched by another player. Note "player"; that's anyone else on the court.

NFHS rule 9-5-3 uses basically the same language. Case book play 9.5.3 is basically the same play as the JUCO question.

[chartrusepengui]

the way it's worded, a player could do the same thing off a teammate and still not double dribble. I can't imagine its a good strategy because you could never be sure how the ball might come off another player - especially one that is facing and defending you.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

the way it's worded, a player could do the same thing off a teammate and still not double dribble.

Correct.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I see nothing in the rulebook that prohibits it. I go with rule 7-5.1c.

Are you sure you aren't talking about 9.7.1c? I know it is late in the day for me and I'm tired, but I can't find the "c" part of the rule you referenced.

I had the same thing (and used the same reference) as Jurassic.

BNR, did you send your answers in yet?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Are you sure you aren't talking about 9.7.1c? I know it is late in the day for me and I'm tired, but I can't find the "c" part of the rule you referenced.

I had the same thing (and used the same reference) as Jurassic.

BNR, did you send your answers in yet?

Oops, I'll go back and correct it. Yes, it was 9-7.1c

Nope, I'll send it in tomorrow. I'm not getting anymore games this season so I'm not too concerned about being a day late.

[Damian]

If the question was intentionally throwing the ball off of the defensive player and the rule that is quoted says it the player cannot dribble again unless there was a pass or fumble touched by another player, wouldn't that conclude that this is a violation?

[elarbitro]

Without looking at the rule book, I would logically conclude that it is a violation for starting a second dribble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by elarbitro

Without looking at the rule book, I would logically conclude that it is a violation for starting a second dribble.

Using whose logic? Old Schools's?

The rule is cited above. The rule says that it ISN'T a violation. The NFHS case play cited is the exact same play and that says that it isn't a violation.

Could you explain logically your reasons why you think that it is a violation?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Damian

If the question was intentionally throwing the ball off of the defensive player and the rule that is quoted says it the player cannot dribble again unless there was a pass or fumble touched by another player, wouldn't that conclude that this is a violation?

How could you possibly conclude that? The "intentionally throwing it at another player" is a pass. Didn't you read the case book play cited? It's exactly the same situation.

[tomegun]

For those that think it is a violation: would you call it a violation if a player threw the ball off a defender to keep from going out of bounds or get out of a trap? How would it be legal to throw the ball off a player to keep from going out of bounds, but illegal to do the same thing and then dribble? What about throwing it off a defender on the throw in and going to get it?