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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:17pm
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Automatic T?

Had this happen for the first time yesterday. Player B1 steals the ball from A1 but is called for a foul on the play. B1 slams the ball on the floor and it bounces about 15 feet in the air. No technical foul called. That was a first for me. I know there's no such thing as an Automatic T, but isn't that about as automatic as it gets? Never seen one not called in that situation. I asked the ref, "I thought that was an automatic T?", and just got a dirty look in return.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:21pm
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
I know there's no such thing as an Automatic T, but isn't that about as automatic as it gets?
You're right, there is no automatic T. Could one have been called here? Sure sounds like it. But it wasn't. The one thing that is certain is that you asking for the call is not gonna make it happen.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:28pm
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Where does it say "automatic?"

No it is not.

First of all I long got away from using the term "automatic" when referencing what I will call. For one there is no such rule that says this is illegal in anyway. Secondly, if the player is frustrated with themselves then it might not be looked at by me the same as if they are upset with me, a partner or an opponent.

A similar thing happen in the National Championship game between Kansas and Memphis and a Memphis player slammed the ball after he missed about 4 FTs in a row. The officials properly understood the situation and did not give a T.

Peace
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
The one thing that is certain is that you asking for the call is not gonna make it happen.
If that happened, then that really would have been something I've never seen before.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:36pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
No it is not.

First of all I long got away from using the term "automatic" when referencing what I will call. For one there is no such rule that says this is illegal in anyway. Secondly, if the player is frustrated with themselves then it might not be looked at by me the same as if they are upset with me, a partner or an opponent.

A similar thing happen in the National Championship game between Kansas and Memphis and a Memphis player slammed the ball after he missed about 4 FTs in a row. The officials properly understood the situation and did not give a T.

Peace

You say that's not automatic, but I bet you can't remember a time when you called a foul on a guy and he says, "no way", and slams the ball, and you did NOT give a T.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
You say that's not automatic, but I bet you can't remember a time when you called a foul on a guy and he says, "no way", and slams the ball, and you did NOT give a T.
Yes I can. I had a kid do something similar about 2 or years ago. And I cannot remember the last time I have called a T for this action at all. I have had other officials call it with me on the game, but not by me. The kid bounced the ball and the ball got away from him and he was mad with his teammate. It made absolutely no sense to call a T for that when it was clear the action was an accident and he did not hurt anyone by his actions.

This idea of "automatic" was conjured up by officials, coaches and some fans somewhere. There is no where in the rulebook or casebook that says this must be called like a player ripping out their jersey. And even with the jersey a player better do it so obvious for it to be called by me. Not just something where a player pulls out the front part of his jersey and it is hardly noticed.

Peace
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
You say that's not automatic, but I bet you can't remember a time when you called a foul on a guy and he says, "no way", and slams the ball, and you did NOT give a T.
You didn't tell us the "no way" part the first time. You're right again, that's about as automatic as it gets.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
You say that's not automatic, but I bet you can't remember a time when you called a foul on a guy and he says, "no way", and slams the ball, and you did NOT give a T.
Oh yeah? There was this one time it happened just like that but I didn't give the T because it was a close game, it was that team's star player and he already had four fouls and I didn't want to cost him a D1 scholarship.

OK, I made that up, but we all know there are some coaches, and a ton of parents, who think those are valid reasons not to give the T.

BTW - if there was an "automatic T", it would absolutely be for a player or coach getting in the official's face and yelling "F you!" (without the abbreviation) If there's anyone out there who can think of a legitimate circumstance in which you wouldn't call that, I'd sure like to hear it.
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Last edited by Mark Padgett; Mon Dec 01, 2008 at 02:48pm.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
You didn't tell us the "no way" part the first time. You're right again, that's about as automatic as it gets.
The "no way" part might have got them a technical, not necessarily the bouncing of the ball. And depending on the history of that kid during the game would have also helped to make that call.

Peace
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Yes I can. I had a kid do something similar about 2 or years ago. And I cannot remember the last time I have called a T for this action at all. I have had other officials call it with me on the game, but not by me. The kid bounced the ball and the ball got away from him and he was mad with his teammate. It made absolutely no sense to call a T for that when it was clear the action was an accident and he did not hurt anyone by his actions.

This idea of "automatic" was conjured up by officials, coaches and some fans somewhere. There is no where in the rulebook or casebook that says this must be called like a player ripping out their jersey. And even with the jersey a player better do it so obvious for it to be called by me. Not just something where a player pulls out the front part of his jersey and it is hardly noticed.

Peace
You're talking about totally different situations. I'm talking about when the ball is slammed because he disagrees with a call you made. Do you really not call a T here?
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
You're right, there is no automatic T.


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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 02:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
Had this happen for the first time yesterday. Player B1 steals the ball from A1 but is called for a foul on the play. B1 slams the ball on the floor and it bounces about 15 feet in the air. No technical foul called. That was a first for me. I know there's no such thing as an Automatic T, but isn't that about as automatic as it gets? Never seen one not called in that situation. I asked the ref, "I thought that was an automatic T?", and just got a dirty look in return.
That is one of the ways you get an automatic T from me.
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 03:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
BTW - if there was an "automatic T", it would absolutely be for a player or coach getting in the official's face and yelling "F you!" (without the abbreviation)
The Kid has turrets?
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Old Mon Dec 01, 2008, 03:05pm
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I won't say "automatic," but....

I can’t imagine not calling the T in the situation described.
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