Blarge alert!!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Defender was leaning several degrees backward as he slid into the guys path.

What if he were leaning several degrees forward?

I must be missing your point. Do you think that verticality has some bearing on establishing initial LGP?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What if he were leaning several degrees forward?

I must be missing your point. Do you think that verticality has some bearing on establishing initial LGP?

I'm saying that if you are leaning back, as this guy was, your torso is not facing the opponent. More like facing the ceiling.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm saying that if you are leaning back, as this guy was, your torso is not facing the opponent. More like facing the ceiling.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm saying that if you are leaning back, as this guy was, your torso is not facing the opponent. More like facing the ceiling.

Holy carp.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm saying that if you are leaning back, as this guy was, your torso is not facing the opponent. More like facing the ceiling.

Once LGP is established, you do not need to continue facing the opponent to maintain it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Once LGP is established, you do not need to continue facing the opponent to maintain it.

4-23-1: "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."


In the play at hand, what I see is the defender leaning backward as he slides into the path of the dribbler. At contact, the defender's feet are straddling the offensive player. As far as I'm concerned, this defender did not "get there first,"
and this would have been a block whether the dribbler had gone airborne or not.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4-23-1: "Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent."


In the play at hand, what I see is the defender leaning backward as he slides into the path of the dribbler. At contact, the defender's feet are straddling the offensive player. As far as I'm concerned, this defender did not "get there first,"
and this would have been a block whether the dribbler had gone airborne or not.

I'm still trying to figure out how the defender could be contacted in the torso if he didn't get there first? Is there a rule against leaning backwards? Is that when an offensive player puts his leg between a defensive players legs (hence, causing the defensive player to "straddle" the offensive player) that it constituted illegal activity on the defender's part?

He got there first. The problem was that he wasn't there when A1 went airborne.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'm still trying to figure out how the defender could be contacted in the torso if he didn't get there first? Is there a rule against leaning backwards? Is that when an offensive player puts his leg between a defensive players legs (hence, causing the defensive player to "straddle" the offensive player) that it constituted illegal activity on the defender's part?

He got there first. The problem was that he wasn't there when A1 went airborne.

4-45-6: A defender may not "belly up" or use the lower part of the body or arms to cause contact outside his/her vertical plane which is a foul.

Sounds a lot like a description of this play to me.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

4-45-6: A defender may not "belly up" or use the lower part of the body or arms to cause contact outside his/her vertical plane which is a foul.

Sounds a lot like a description of this play to me.

I guess we're seeing different plays. The defender doesn't belly up at all - but rather leans backwards. Those are different things.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Do you think that verticality has some bearing on establishing initial LGP?

No, but isn't there a distance requirement? I mean, it's not LGP when a defender stands under the basket facing a dribbler who is in his own back court, right? (Genuine question here, not being a smartazz)

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No, but isn't there a distance requirement?

Technically, no. A player can establish legal guarding position by actively guarding an opponent (which means meeting the criteria for LGP of two feet initially on the floor, torso facing opponent, etc), but there is no distance requirement.

The only time distance enters the discussion is in determining if there is a closely guarded situation.