Travel Question

[SamIAm]

In reading the traveling rules, it seems there is a small gap where a A1 gains control of the ball while on floor (sliding feet first in my scenario). A1's momentum and hand then put A1 on his feet. I read the NCAA case play which I think is identical to the Fed case play. The case play tells you what A1 can do after his momentum stops but doesn't incluse a scenario where the momentum (and a hand)brings A1 to his feet.

[Adam]

Are you talking about like a baseball-style slide and pop-up?

That's not momentum, that's getting up after gaining control. Travel.

[Back In The Saddle]

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Does that cover it?

[Adam]

Billy, I see no way the OP represents a myth of any kind.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Billy, I see no way the OP represents a myth of any kind.

My mistake:

A player may slide on the floor while trying to secure a loose ball until that player’s momentum stops. At that point that player cannot attempt to get up or rollover. A player securing a ball while on the floor cannot attempt to stand up unless that player starts a dribble. A player in this situation may also pass, shoot, or call a timeout. If the player is flat on his or her back, that player may sit up without violating.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

A player or coach may REQUEST a timeout, BUT only an official may CALL a timeout.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Does that cover it?

I think that the part in red is why the OP is saying that there is a gap in the rule. If while the player was still sliding he/she was able to rise to the feet before the momentum of that slide ceased, then the part which you put in bold wouldn't apply. That's taking the wording quite literally, of course.

The easy response is that the slide ends when the player is no longer on the floor. Simply define a slide as something that a player does while on the floor, and then the getting up becomes a violation.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A player or coach may REQUEST a timeout, BUT only an official may CALL a timeout.

MTD, Sr.

2002-03 NFHS BASKETBALL RULES INTERPRETATIONS


SITUATION 1: A1 calls a 60-second time-out in the backcourt. After the time-out is over, the official erroneously awards Team B the ball for a sideline throw-in. B1 completes the throw-in to B2 before the official realizes the mistake. RULING: This is not a correctable error situation; play should continue. COMMENT: Obviously, officials should take steps to avoid this type of error. Many different techniques are available, such as holding the ball under the arm that points in the direction the ball will go when play is resumed. (2-10)

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 11: A1 is injured during a play in which he/she was fouled. As a result, A1 cannot attempt the awarded free throws. A6 replaces A1 and attempts the free throws, which are successful. Team A then calls a time-out. At the conclusion of the time-out, (a) A1 is ready to play, or (b) A7 replaces A6. RULING: In (a), A1 may not re-enter the game until the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has properly started. Legal substitution in (b); A6 may leave the game at any time. Substitution restrictions only apply to being withdrawn and attempting to re-enter without the clock properly starting. (8-2; 3-3-4)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A player or coach may REQUEST a timeout, BUT only an official may CALL a timeout.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: All of us Forum regulars know that you are correct, although I would have used the word "grant" instead of "call" in your post if I were in an overly officious mood, however, there are NFHS casebook plays that contain the language "call a timeout". Also, the definition of call does not mean the same as grant: To say in a loud voice; announce.

Nevertheless, your post is a reminder to young officials that just because someone yells timeout, does not mean that you automatically blow the whistle and grant that timeout.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A player or coach may REQUEST a timeout, BUT only an official may CALL a timeout.

Mark: given common parlance, you COULD read "player/coach calls a timeout" etc. as elliptical for "player/coach calls for a timeout." Everyone knows that only the whistle stops the clock.

Just tryin' to make the forum less stressful for you.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

"parlance", "elliptical"

I'm not sure if I've ever seen these two words used in the same sentence before. In fact, I'm not sure that I've ever seen the word parlance before, or really know what it means.

I give up. Philosopher, writer, or English teacher? Come on. Inquiring minds, that don't use words like parlance, want to know.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A player or coach may REQUEST a timeout, BUT only an official may CALL a timeout.

OK Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., you've convinced me:

The traveling rule is one of the most misunderstood rules in basketball. To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted. On a pass or a shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released. A player may slide on the floor while trying to secure a loose ball until that player’s momentum stops. At that point that player cannot attempt to get up or rollover. A player securing a ball while on the floor cannot attempt to stand up unless that player starts a dribble. A player in this situation may also pass, shoot, or request a timeout. If the player is flat on his or her back, that player may sit up without violating.

You are now offcially a Mythbuster:

Thanks to the following Official Forum Basketball web site members for their contributions in developing this list: bossref, Hartsy, Jurassic Referee, Camron Rust, Mark Padgett, Nevadaref, Mark Dexter, Dan ref, mdray, Jimgolf, elecref, Assignmentmaker, IREFU2, David M, JeffW, Back In The Saddle, rainmaker, texaspaul, BktBallRef, bob jenkins, and Mark T. DeNucci, Sr..

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I think that the part in red is why the OP is saying that there is a gap in the rule. If while the player was still sliding he/she was able to rise to the feet before the momentum of that slide ceased, then the part which you put in bold wouldn't apply. That's taking the wording quite literally, of course.

The easy response is that the slide ends when the player is no longer on the floor. Simply define a slide as something that a player does while on the floor, and then the getting up becomes a violation.

Exactly. Regardless, of the small gap I perceive, I wouldn't hesitate at calling it a travel. However, as the rule reads the limitations of movement are literally defined after momentum has ceased. I am just saying...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not sure if I've ever seen these two words used in the same sentence before. In fact, I'm not sure that I've ever seen the word parlance before, or really know what it means.

I give up. Philosopher, writer, or English teacher? Come on. Inquiring minds, that don't use words like parlance, want to know.

So you're saying that 'common parlance' isn't common parlance anymore? Hm, ironic, and a shame. It just means "common way of speaking." Same root as 'parlay' and 'parole'.

As for your question: Are there any other options besides these three? I am a philosopher, I have 2 published books, I'm currently teaching a writing course, and I taught ESL for several years. Does that help?

I apologize if this post qualifies me for "Mr. Annoying Autobiography Guy."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I am a philosopher, I have 2 published books, I'm currently teaching a writing course, and I taught ESL for several years. Does that help?I apologize if this post qualifies me for "Mr. Annoying Autobiography Guy."

Why apologize? You didn't offer. I asked. I believe, twice. You simply responded.

Me? Well since you asked. "I'm just a sweet transvestite, from Transsexual Transylvania."

Happy Thanksgiving. We have Thanksgiving here in Transylvania. We don't have Turkey. Here in Eastern Europe Turkey is a country, not a food. Instead we have the traditional Transylvanian veal stew.