count the basket or not

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Which part? Declaring the quarter over, or wiping the basket?
That's why I just end it now, then there's no official disagreeing with me for wiping the basket.

The part about you deciding to correct an obvious timing mistake.

The rule specifies that is the job of the REFEREE.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The part about you deciding to correct an obvious timing mistake.

The rule specifies that is the job of the REFEREE.

Doh! I think we've had this discussion before.

I didn't read the last half of 2-5-5.

FWIW, I wasn't the R, but the R was cool with it; which I suppose amounts to tacit approval.

[Nevadaref]

It's also in 5-10-1 and 5-10-2.

FWIW, I would handle the action in the same manner as you. I would start a visible count and when I reach what should be the end of the quarter--sound the whistle.

The difference would be that I would then go straight to the R and tell him that the clock didn't start so I counted it out and that he needs to go over to the table, have a brief word about what just happened, and declare the quarter over.

[OHBBREF]

Both Snaqs and Nevada have Valid points
We always have the official responsible for the clock count with 5 seconds or less. The all officials are responsible to make sure the clock starts properly on all plays.
and as Nevada says this play looks much better if you do not have to take the points off the board.

This is were the game managment part of officiating comes in if you are constantly aware of clock, shot clock, and score. you can make these adjustments or they are not surprises when they pop up and you can dela with them w/o major malfunctions occuring.

In a situation such as this a reation from the official responsible for the last second shot before the buzzer would be ideal. The book calls for definate knowledge and if you react after the buzzer it is a harder sell than if one of you is waving of time when it should happen not after a 2 minute conference with no monitor to check.

[jdmara]

Great discussion all. I believe it must be noted that although it's not defined (that I know of) by rule/manual when the clock is under 5 seconds, the "definitive" count should be done visually.

In one of the camps I have been, the clinician noted a instance of this happening in a college game. Needless to say, he didn't have a visual count and the supervisor of officials was not to thrilled about using an "invisible count" as definitive information. He referenced that the team went back looked at the tape, made their determination of how much time should have came off the clock before the shot, then forwarded it to the league. The supervisor told him that it would have been much more defensible if he would have just had a visual count (even if it was wrong). Just thought I would share the story

-Josh

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by jdmara

Great discussion all. I believe it must be noted that although it's not defined (that I know of) by rule/manual when the clock is under 5 seconds, the "definitive" count should be done visually.

I have never read about or been told - heard anyone told - or heard anyone talk about a visual count durring any NCAA camp or meeting or pregame -with less than five seconds on a clock.

there is a signal you can use for "Lock down" late in a game,
but a visual count would be a disaster. for many reasons, at the upper levels there is the monitor to use in most games for this purpose, nobody counts as the same pace. Do the drill with your eyes closed most people count to 10 in about 6 seconds. if the clock shows four and they see you count to five to be safe and you count the shot what would happen?

there are two visual there visual counts that come to mind for for an official:
Men 10 seconds backcourt
both five seconds Inbound
both five seconds closely guarded Men dribbline Men and women held ball M 6ft w 3ft