Another T situation

[fiasco]

Need help on whether I was a little too quick with the whack on Saturday.

Jr High boys, it's the fourth quarter of a hotly contested game. Home coach has been vocal but not out of line the whole game until the fourth quarter. He stomps his feet and makes some outlandish gestures at a call from my partner. He is given a warning.

A few minutes later, I call a foul on H1. As I'm walking away from the table to go administer the free throws, I hear the loud crash of a clipboard hitting the Home bench. I know it has to be the Home coach because there's no one around him with a clipboard and he was holding it while I reported the foul.

So, I never saw him throw the clipboard, and he would later claim he was frustrated with his players and was talking to them when he threw it, the action was not directed towards the officials. I told him "throwing a clipboard is throwing a clipboard, coach. It's unsportsmanlike."

Varsity coach watching the game asked me after the game what the T was for and he seemed purturbed by my call as well. What do you think?

Oh, and this Jr High coach came up to me after the game (same game where he had told the scorekeeper that this was the best officiated game he had seen all year) and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Need help on whether I was a little too quick with the whack on Saturday.

Jr High boys, it's the fourth quarter of a hotly contested game. Home coach has been vocal but not out of line the whole game until the fourth quarter. He stomps his feet and makes some outlandish gestures at a call from my partner. He is given a warning.

A few minutes later, I call a foul on H1. As I'm walking away from the table to go administer the free throws, I hear the loud crash of a clipboard hitting the Home bench. I know it has to be the Home coach because there's no one around him with a clipboard and he was holding it while I reported the foul.

So, I never saw him throw the clipboard, and he would later claim he was frustrated with his players and was talking to them when he threw it, the action was not directed towards the officials. I told him "throwing a clipboard is throwing a clipboard, coach. It's unsportsmanlike."

Varsity coach watching the game asked me after the game what the T was for and he seemed purturbed by my call as well. What do you think?

Oh, and this Jr High coach came up to me after the game (same game where he had told the scorekeeper that this was the best officiated game he had seen all year) and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

HTBT situation, first of all. My philosophy on coaches behavior is that it sets the example for the team. We let the coaches/captains know before the game even starts that they are to be at their best behavior. I don't think it matters whether he throws the clipboard for the sake of the players or to protest a call by the refs. The coach just earned himself a "T"

-Josh

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

So, I never saw him throw the clipboard, and he would later claim he was frustrated with his players and was talking to them when he threw it, the action was not directed towards the officials. I told him "throwing a clipboard is throwing a clipboard, coach. It's unsportsmanlike."

Normally, I wouldn't call a T for this unless I saw it. I need to know if he threw it or dropped it. If you're sure he threw it, though, I see no problem with it.

Originally Posted by fiasco

Varsity coach watching the game asked me after the game what the T was for and he seemed purturbed by my call as well. What do you think?

Is this a small town? Why is the varsity coach at a Jr. High game?

Originally Posted by fiasco

Oh, and this Jr High coach came up to me after the game (same game where he had told the scorekeeper that this was the best officiated game he had seen all year) and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

How long after the game? Before you left the court? If he pulls this while you're still on the court, report the second T. The final horn is not the start of open season.

On your way to the locker room?

How are your games assigned with this school? With the AD directly, or by an assigner? I would contact your assigner, if applicable, with the coach's behavior.

[rlarry]

Definitely give him the T for throwing the clipboard if you or your partner sees it. What if the coach had said the clipboard got knocked out of his hand? Are you taking the T back? You got lucky and made the right call, because he didn't deny throwing it. You should be careful about making a call on something you don't see. We should never guess or assume. Have a great season

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by fiasco

He stomps his feet and makes some outlandish gestures at a call from my partner. He is given a warning.

IMO, this is where you should have stuck him. It's a T'able offense right out of the book. You stick him here, the problem most likely stops. You let him get away with it so he took it to the next level.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Oh, and this Jr High coach came up to me after the game (same game where he had told the scorekeeper that this was the best officiated game he had seen all year) and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

"That's impossible, coach."
"Why?"
"The odds are too great to have the ****tiest ref and the ****tiest coach working the same game."

[Nevadaref]

Good WHACK.

I don't care why he threw down his clipboard. It is his unsporting action which is being penalized, not the rationale behind the action.

BTW I would have T'd him for this instead of giving a warning: "He stomps his feet and makes some outlandish gestures at a call from my partner."

You were more than patient. You certainly were not too quick.

[Back In The Saddle]

Couple of thoughts:

1) Don't T what you don't see. You got lucky this time. That kind of luck won't last forever.

2) I wouldn't lose any sleep over the varsity coach's assessment. Coaches have their own little fantasy basketball set of rules about when they deserve to get whacked and when they don't.

3) If you believe them when they tell you you're doing well, you have to believe them when they tell you you're doing terribly. Don't put stock in a coach's assessment.

4) HTBT, but I would have seriously considered whacking the jerk after his final assessment of your game. Or, if it was too late for that, I might have suggested that he get out more

3)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

1) Don't T what you don't see. You got lucky this time. That kind of luck won't last forever.

While generally true, seeing isn't everything. There is a definitely a time and place to penalize what you know happened even though you didn't directly see it, and that has nothing to do with luck.

We need to use our ears and minds too.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by fiasco

...and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

Jr High coach said that???

That earns an all expense paid visit to http://www.yourstategoverningbody.com/specialreport

[cdaref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

While generally true, seeing isn't everything. There is a definitely a time and place to penalize what you know happened even though you didn't directly see it, and that has nothing to do with luck.

We need to use our ears and minds too.

I'm with Nevada on this.

I dont need to see it rain to know it rained if I wake up and everything is wet. Sure, maybe a firetruck drove by and hosed down my whole neighborhood.

If you know he threw it, even if you didnt see it then ring it up.

Those kind of hotheads have no place in youth sports. I understand basketball is a passionate game, but what happened to sportsmanship? There is nothing wrong -- nothing -- with demanding appropriate conduct from coaches.

And it doesnt matter if he threw it out of frustration with his kids. Its like cussing. It doesnt have to be addressed at the officials.

Good T.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by eyezen

Jr High coach said that???

That earns an all expense paid visit to http://www.yourstategoverningbody.com/specialreport

Ohio has now instituted a $100 fine for every coach who gets ejected. The trip to Columbus is a bonus award for the second ejection.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Ohio has now instituted a $100 fine for every coach who gets ejected. The trip to Columbus is a bonus award for the second ejection.

From the tone of your post, it doesn't sound like a trip to Columbus is the same as a trip to Las Vegas, a trip to Orlando, or a trip to Hawaii.

(Who's old enough to identify the title of this post?)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Varsity coach watching the game asked me after the game what the T was for and he seemed purturbed by my call as well. What do you think?

Oh, and this Jr High coach came up to me after the game (same game where he had told the scorekeeper that this was the best officiated game he had seen all year) and told me "You're the ****tiest ref I have ever seen in all my years of coaching."

2 conversations that would never have happened with me. I do my best not allow any coaches to get near me after a game. And if they do the only exchange will be "Good game; have a safe trip home" or something to that effect.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

2 conversations that would never have happened with me. I do my best not allow any coaches to get near me after a game. And if they do the only exchange will be "Good game; have a safe trip home" of something to that effect.

That's pretty much what it boiled down to. He asked me why I gave the T (again), I told him (again) then he began his diatribe. I said "Ok, coach, have a nice day" and that was it.