End of game sitch

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It's obvious in this case why the player threw the ball to the official. To get a new 5 second count, and eat more time off the clock, thus allowing the the other team less opportunity to get the ball back and score. How do you not see this as an advantage; it's clearly an advantage not intended by the rules.

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

Yup, my third option. Personally, I'm okay with any of the following, plus what I'll call 2.5, letting it hit me and bouncing straight down while continuing my count.

1, 2, and 2.5 are likely to result in a 5 second violation. 3 is just as good.

It might just depend on how quickly I can think. If I catch it without thinking, I'll kill the clock. If I think quickly enough to get out of the way, even better.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I see three options here.

1. Your option is a good one; letting it roll and continuing the count.

2. Bat it back to him and continue the count. Don't start it over.

3. Stop the clock and re-administer. This defeats B1's purpose and allows A to set up their defense.

Personally, I like all three but prefer #1.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In this situation, simply blow the whistle, stop the clock, recover the ball, and reset the throwin. That will negate the advantage the player was attempting to gain by wasting time.

If done that way, then what is the punishment to the attempted cheater? He is no worse off now than he was before. Perhaps he lost about two seconds which would have come off the clock before he executed an inbounds pass, but his team still has the ball. He basically got a free opportunity to gain an unfair advantage.

I like moving out of the way and letting the player's throw roll away while his five seconds expires. If there is any justice, a five second violation will occur and his team will lose possession.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If done that way, then what is the punishment to the attempted cheater? He is no worse off now than he was before. Perhaps he lost about two seconds which would have come off the clock before he executed an inbounds pass, but his team still has the ball. He basically got a free opportunity to gain an unfair advantage.

I like moving out of the way and letting the player's throw roll away while his five seconds expires. If there is any justice, a five second violation will occur and his team will lose possession.

The advantage they were seeking was to have more time run off the clock by having you delay the start of the 5 count...they were ahead. Stopping the clock kills the advantage they wanted. Now they only get the 1-2 seconds that have already come off the clock instead of the 5 they'd get by either dodging the ball or batting it back to them. They have to make the throwin now and the other team has a fair chance to steal it instead of being shorted a couple of seconds.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The advantage they were seeking was to have more time run off the clock by having you delay the start of the 5 count...they were ahead. Stopping the clock kills the advantage they wanted. Now they only get 1-2 seconds off the clock instead of 5. They have to make the throwin now and the other team has a fair chance to steal it instead of being shorted a couple of seconds.

Right, you denied them the unfair advantage that they were seeking, but I asked you WHAT PUNISHMENT is there for the attempted cheating? Your answer is that we now have a situation that is fair. Does the team that just tried to cheat deserve a level situation at this point?

I still say that you are letting them off the hook. Handled your way, there is no real downside to the unsporting action.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

no pro philosophy to it really.... just seems like an unprofessional way to handle the situation by showing up a KID or I would say make him look clueless but I would have to say it makes the official look more clueless than anything. I've never even seen a college official, or a HS official for that matter decline to catch and throw the ball back to the player, granted i'm a lot younger than you both so if you have seen it please let me know, besides you doing it yourself of course.

I don't really see much of an advantage gained here by doing this either and I don't believe gaining extra time to throw the ball in is relevant.

-It doesn't help the new offensive team if the new defensive team is pressing. It just gives the defense a chance to better set up their defensive press.

-If the defense isn't pressing... then what does it matter if he tosses it to you. He won't actually need that full extra 2 seconds it takes for him to toss the ball to you and you toss it right back.

But if you fill it is that pertinent, give the OFFENSIVE TEAM a Delay of Game. Weird and unusual... but if you think it is dead set necessary... by all means.

I've re-read this several times and if it comes off condescending i apologize as that is not my intent. just trying to get my point firmly placed.

If it's a 1 point game with under 15 seconds I'm thinking they are pressing and every second is valuable.
O's coach won't care if his team get's a D.O.G. so long as it's his first of the game so long as he escapes with a 1 point win.
This is an interesting stitch because it certainly could come up. I think I'm tapping the ball back to the thrower and continuing the count. There's going to be an upset coach if he loses the ball on a 5 second violation but on the other hand there's going to be an upset coach if we let extra seconds tick off the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChrisSportsFan

If it's a 1 point game with under 15 seconds I'm thinking they are pressing and every second is valuable.
O's coach won't care if his team get's a D.O.G. so long as it's his first of the game so long as he escapes with a 1 point win.
This is an interesting stitch because it certainly could come up. I think I'm tapping the ball back to the thrower and continuing the count. There's going to be an upset coach if he loses the ball on a 5 second violation but on the other hand there's going to be an upset coach if we let extra seconds tick off the clock.

He's going to be upset at his player for throwing the ball to the official on this play when they haven't thrown it to you all game.

And if he's not, he's probably going to be smart enough about it here that he'll try to control himself with a one point lead.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

He's going to be upset at his player for throwing the ball to the official on this play when they haven't thrown it to you all game.

And if he's not, he's probably going to be smart enough about it here that he'll try to control himself with a one point lead.

At least he should be but you know how it goes sometimes.
I'm glad to have a chance to consider how to handle this stitch before the season starts.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Right, you denied them the unfair advantage that they were seeking, but I asked you WHAT PUNISHMENT is there for the attempted cheating? Your answer is that we now have a situation that is fair. Does the team that just tried to cheat deserve a level situation at this point?

I still say that you are letting them off the hook. Handled your way, there is no real downside to the unsporting action.

Sure there is....they wanted 5+ seconds off the clock, and legally could get 5. By me blowing the whistle, they get 1-2 only. That's what they lose. Not a big punishment, but one nonetheless.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I do my best to just jump out of the way of the ball and let it continue on its path with me continuing the count. After you do this once or twice in a game, it doesn't happen anymore.

Seriously Mark? You are the last one I would expect to post this answer!

Why wouldn't you just catch the ball and toss it back to the player? Getting out of the way and continuing the count is just mean!

In the end of game situation posted, if I thought the player did it on purpose I might call a delay of game, put any time back on the clock, and start the inbound over.

(This should cause some good responses )

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Brad

Seriously Mark? You are the last one I would expect to post this answer! Why wouldn't you just catch the ball and toss it back to the player? Getting out of the way and continuing the count is just mean!
In the end of game situation posted, if I thought the player did it on purpose I might call a delay of game, put any time back on the clock, and start the inbound over.

I've just been sitting back here, reading others' posts, not wanting to take a stand on this obviously controversial, yet with little specific rule, or case situation, backing, issue, but I've decided to give it a shot.

I've had many, many, youth level games, where, especially at the beginning of the season, a confused player, after a made basket, will toss it to the official. I've just tossed it back. So, instinctively, I would probably do the same here.

That's my story, short and simple, and I'm sticking to it until the NFHS comes up with a rule, or case play, specific to this situation.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've just been sitting back here, reading others' posts, not wanting to take a stand on this obviously controversial, yet with little specific rule, or case situation, backing, issue, but I've decided to give it a shot.

I've had many, many, youth level games, where, especially at the beginning of the season, a confused player, after a made basket, will toss it to the official. I've just tossed it back. So, instinctively, I would probably do the same here.

That's my story, short and simple, and I'm sticking to it until the NFHS comes up with a rule, or case play, specific to this situation.

i've sat back on this issue just to see what more people would say and its good to see that common sense officiating is coming through in the end. I just try and picture an official moving out of the way of a dead ball that is clearly being tossed to him and it makes no practical sense to me...

I understand the value of time... trust me i do but i believe the fault for this time problem is placed on the NFHS. They should allow for the clock to stop under 1 min. in the last period so that this sitch under debate is not even a problem because now players, when taking the ball out with 6 or 7 seconds will toss the ball to the official and then doesn't have to throw the ball in. That cannot be put on us or the players. We are doing the right thing and the player is doing the smart thing in taking advantage of a hole in the rules.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Team A is down 4 points with less than 15 seconds on the game clock. A2 scores on a 3 point try... Team A is now down by 1. Team B delays in picking up the ball, the official begins his 5 second count. B1 sees the count, picks up the ball & tosses it to the official.
What would you do?

Any casebook play provided would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Originally Posted by btaylor64

i've sat back on this issue just to see what more people would say and its good to see that common sense officiating is coming through in the end. I just try and picture an official moving out of the way of a dead ball that is clearly being tossed to him and it makes no practical sense to me...

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I understand the value of time... trust me i do but i believe the fault for this time problem is placed on the NFHS. They should allow for the clock to stop under 1 min. in the last period so that this sitch under debate is not even a problem because now players, when taking the ball out with 6 or 7 seconds will toss the ball to the official and then doesn't have to throw the ball in. That cannot be put on us or the players. We are doing the right thing and the player is doing the smart thing in taking advantage of a hole in the rules.

There's no "hole" in the rules here, as there's no provision for a player tossing the ball to the official. At best, I'll bat it in their direction while continuing my count. If you catch it, start your count over, and keep the clock running, you've given them an advantage not intended by the rules.

If you give the D.O.G. warning, you've gone outside the rules, but at least you've addressed it and negated their advantage. There's no real "punishment," though.

Am I likely to get out of the way? Probably not. But I am more likely than not just to let it hit me and keep bouncing while my hand keeps swinging.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Wrong again, Mr. Rules Guru.

I understand he's not up to speed on all NFHS rules, but to miss a basic like this?