Another Question: 35

[jritchie]

If B1 fouls A1, and before the clock starts, B2 fouls A2, it is a false multiple foul?
Would this be called a FALSE DOUBLE FOUL, NOT MULTIPLE. Or because it's by the same team would it be called a FALSE MULTIPLE FOUL?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jritchie

If B1 fouls A1, and before the clock starts, B2 fouls A2, it is a false multiple foul?
Would this be called a FALSE DOUBLE FOUL, NOT MULTIPLE. Or because it's by the same team would it be called a FALSE MULTIPLE FOUL?

You've nailed it.

[jritchie]

thanks!

[just another ref]

Never really got the term "false double foul."

A double foul is two fouls by opponents at "approximately the same time."

A false double foul is one foul followed by another. Why do we not call it "one foul followed by another."

We could call a player control foul a "false blocking foul."

[agr8zebra]

Are you sure, a double foul is a situation in which two opponents commit personal fouls against each other, at about the same time

This is a false multiple because, B fouled A twice and it is false becasue one aspect of a multiple foul is that it occur at about the same time, and the question states that time has gone by between the two fouls

[jdw3018]

I don't like any of the "false" fouls...they don't carry any different penalty at all from "regular" fouls.

A false double foul is penalized as one foul committed after another, just as a false multiple foul is. I suppose there was a reason for creating the distinction at one time, but I can't figure out what it is.

Anybody know why they're defined as such?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by jritchie

If B1 fouls A1, and before the clock starts, B2 fouls A2, it is a false multiple foul?

I'm going to have to kill somebody and start over!

[iref4him]

Back in 1975 --> the false double foul resulted in a jump ball since the second foul happened before the clock starts. The rule was changed soon after.

The false multiple foul was penalized if it happened during the same situation which would have resulted in the multiple foul penalty situation. The rule was changed soon after.

The rules where changed to how they are today. Now you take the fouls and consequent throw-in or feel throws in order and the way the happen. The rule terminology is the same, the administering of them are different. It really doesn't make sense to keep them, but until they do it's a false double foul.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by iref4him

Back in 1975 --> the false double foul resulted in a jump ball since the second foul happened before the clock starts. The rule was changed soon after.

The false multiple foul was penalized if it happened during the same situation which would have resulted in the multiple foul penalty situation. The rule was changed soon after.

The rules where changed to how they are today. Now you take the fouls and consequent throw-in or feel throws in order and the way the happen. The rule terminology is the same, the administering of them are different. It really doesn't make sense to keep them, but until they do it's a false double foul.

Thanks for the history lesson - that makes sense. I figured that at one time they were treated differently, and that required a separate definition of false double and multiple fouls...

Thanks!

[mick]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I don't like any of the "false" fouls...they don't carry any different penalty at all from "regular" fouls.

A false double foul is penalized as one foul committed after another, just as a false multiple foul is. I suppose there was a reason for creating the distinction at one time, but I can't figure out what it is.

Anybody know why they're defined as such?

I'll guess.

B pushes A down [whistle];
A gets up and pushes B down [whistle].

A is fouled during dead ball.
If false double, there is no technical, but may be shots (depending on Team foul total or shooting) .
If double, no shots

* * * *

B1 hacks non-shooting A1 [whistle];
B2 pushes non-shooting A1 [whistle].

A is fouled during live ball and during dead ball.
If false multiple there is no technical; each foul is penalized (depending on Team foul total or shooting).
If multiple, one shot for each foul. [For shooting (successful and unsuccessful) there is more differentiation.]

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by mick

I'll guess.[INDENT]B pushes A down [whistle];
A gets up and pushes B down [whistle].

could be a fight!

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by mick

I'll guess.
B pushes A down [whistle];
A gets up and pushes B down [whistle].

at a minimum A is done. Dead ball Contact fouls

player technical
ART. 8 . . . Intentionally or flagrantly contacting an opponent when the ball is dead and such contact is not a personal foul.
PENALTYSection 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.
NOTE: A single flagrant technical foul or the second technical foul charged to a player results in disqualification of the offender to the team bench.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

at a minimum A is done. Dead ball Contact fouls

player technical
ART. 8 . . . Intentionally or flagrantly contacting an opponent when the ball is dead and such contact is not a personal foul.
PENALTYSection 3) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.
NOTE: A single flagrant technical foul or the second technical foul charged to a player results in disqualification of the offender to the team bench.

If it's just a push, I'm not going flagrant. This is an act that will be judged by what follows. If it leads to a fight, it's fighting. If it doesn't, it's not.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If it's just a push, I'm not going flagrant. This is an act that will be judged by what follows. If it leads to a fight, it's fighting. If it doesn't, it's not.

Fed
SECTION 18 FIGHTING
Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 . . . An attempt to strike, punch or kick an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 . . . An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act toward an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting.

now I am not saying that you are locked in here I am just saying that you have a foul that put a player on the ground - who got up and put his opponenet on the ground clearly in retaliation. you hwave a very small window to operate in here.

In the NCAA you are little more locked into more serious trouble here.

[Adam]

Agreed. If you jump in and it stops at the two pushes, you can settle with a personal and a T. B's initial foul is a personal. A's follow up is a T. If B responds yet again, you've likely got a fight. If a third player jumps in, you've got a fight.

I'm not counting A's initial response as fighting unless it leads to a fight.