Block / Charge Situation

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rwest

The player was trying to draw a foul! He flopped. So you either give him a T or ignore it. However, this play doesn't have the same elements. This scenario is nothing like the OP or the Case Play.

Your Honor, move to strike - defendent is submitting facts not already in evidence... I did not say anywhere that there was a flop; in fact, my point is the dribbler saw the defender standing on the line, and purposely ran into the defender, causing enough contact to knock himself over. Iow, the dribbler initiated contact. Why is it still a block?

Let me change the play slightly - A2 is being guarded and being forced on a path toward B1, who is looking at the coach and has one foot on the sideline. A2 sticks out their forearm and knocks B1 out of the way so they can get by. No severe contact, just a simple push off by the dribbler. Are you saying this can never be a player-control foul, because B1 has a foot on the line?

Maybe we've lost track about the discussion. In the OP, I believe we are all assuming the defender is trying to obtain or maintain LGP by stepping into the path of the offense, and at the moment of contact, the defender's foot is on the line - therefore, we all agree it's a block, as per 4.23.3 Sit B. No problem there. I think we also agree that any player is entitled to their spot on the floor, whether or not there is LGP established, if an offensive player initiates contact, correct? Where we disagree is whether the defender's foot being OOB automatically makes them responsible for the contact, even if the defender is stationary. My contention is that the case play states directly the reason for the block is because of "forfeiture" of LGP by being OOB. It does not say the defender has "illegal status" by being OOB. In fact, this is supported by the fact it is part of the "Guarding" section of the rules. So, simply being OOB does not mean that player has forfeited their right to draw a player-control foul. It only means they have forfeited their LGP. That's the difference.