Double dribble?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I see your point, BITS. However, if you are going to consider the "pass" to be a dribble, then you should sound the whistle and call a violation as soon as A1 begins the second dribble.

This is a strange play, but my opinion is still that it isn't a violation because it doesn't meet the intent and purpose of the rule. A1 was not trying to dribble a second time, nor was A1 trying to touch the ball after throwing it in the direction of A2.

Just my thoughts.

You're right, this was a strange play. Just trying to understand it a little better. Nobody said a word about the call at the time; but that does not mean I got it right.

Just for my edification: If the situation were a little different, if she had passed the ball and then gone and actually picked it up, now we have an illegal dribble, correct?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Just for my edification: If the situation were a little different, if she had passed the ball and then gone and actually picked it up, now we have an illegal dribble, correct?

Or travelling?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Or travelling?

How so? She was not holding the ball, which is fundamental to traveling.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

How so? She was not holding the ball, which is fundamental to traveling.

My bad, I was thinking about a player leaving his/her feet then passing the ball and retrieving it.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My bad, I was thinking about a player leaving his/her feet then passing the ball and retrieving it.

Please forgive me for splitting hairs here, but that is still not a travel.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

My bad, I was thinking about a player leaving his/her feet then passing the ball and retrieving it.

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Please forgive me for splitting hairs here, but that is still not a travel.

Yes it is...That would be a travel for lifting the pivot foot prior to starting a dribble. The same reason it is a travel when a player goes up for a jump shot, drops the ball, then retrieves it. That's a travel.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Yes it is...That would be a travel for lifting the pivot foot prior to starting a dribble. The same reason it is a travel when a player goes up for a jump shot, drops the ball, then retrieves it. That's a travel.

It is only a travel if A1 has not picked-up the dribble. In the OP, the dribble had been picked-up. I do not see where you changed that scenario.

The NCAA case play is A.R. 200. This ruling is identical in FED. Illegal Dribble.

I have used the following as a rule of thumb -
There is only one way to travel without the ball: A1 having secured the ball while laying or setting on the floor (not standing), then releases the ball, stands up, then picks up the ball, all this with no other players touching the ball.

But A.R. 200 Includes another possibility in sitch 1.
Is FED and NCAA in agreement?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Please forgive me for splitting hairs here, but that is still not a travel.

Why not? The player lifted his/her pivot foot before beginning what turned out to be a dribble. That's travelling.

See 4.44.3B

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why not? The player lifted his/her pivot foot before beginning what turned out to be a dribble. That's travelling.

See 4.44.3B

4.44.3B has the player returning to the floor with the ball. BNRs sitch is with the ball being released.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

You're right, this was a strange play. Just trying to understand it a little better. Nobody said a word about the call at the time; but that does not mean I got it right.

Just for my edification: If the situation were a little different, if she had passed the ball and then gone and actually picked it up, now we have an illegal dribble, correct?

Yes, that would clearly be a second dribble.

PS It's definitely not traveling, but sadly there are many officials who would call such.

[OHBBREF]

okay there is no player control during an interupted dribble, and a player may directly resume dribbling of the ball upon recovery as long as it is part of the same dribble. (didn't pick up the ball - didn't trap it on the floor, and pick it up etc.).
however my question is this; wouldn't the dribble end when the ball was touched by another player, offense or defense?

If a dribble is batted by a defender then recovered by the dribbler, they can gather the ball and dribble again. If the dribbler accidently dribbles the ball off of a teammate they can gather the ball and dribble again.

I do not see any difference becase there is loss of player control durring an iterupted dribble and the ball was touched by another player IMO ending the dribble.
I got nothing here.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

okay there is no player control during an interupted dribble, and a player may directly resume dribbling of the ball upon recovery as long as it is part of the same dribble. (didn't pick up the ball - didn't trap it on the floor, and pick it up etc.).
however my question is this; wouldn't the dribble end when the ball was touched by another player, offense or defense?

If a dribble is batted by a defender then recovered by the dribbler, they can gather the ball and dribble again. If the dribbler accidently dribbles the ball off of a teammate they can gather the ball and dribble again.

I do not see any difference becase there is loss of player control durring an iterupted dribble and the ball was touched by another player IMO ending the dribble.
I got nothing here.

Re-read the original post. The ball didn't touch another player, it touched A1 again.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Re-read the original post. The ball didn't touch another player, it touched A1 again.

OOPS - In that case -
try this,
since there is no player control during an interuppted dribble the touch by A1 did not re-establish control so it would be irrelivant to what happens next.

[Back In The Saddle]

To recap the OP: player dribbles, ends dribble, makes short pass, receiver runs away, player moves to where ball is now bouncing on floor and ball bounces into her.

IF we consider the end of this play to be an interrupted dribble, we have a problem because the player has already used her dribble, and a second dribble, interrupted or not, is an illegal dribble.

As Nevadaref pointed out earlier, either we have to consider the initial act of pushing the ball to the floor to be the start of a second dribble, which it clearly wasn't. Or else we don't have a dribble unless A1 retrieves and controls her errant pass, which she didn't do. So what it appears to have been is merely a loose ball that touched A1, but wasn't anything else. Well, that and a bad whistle.