Double dribble??

[zac]

Player A picks up dribble, player B touches the ball while it is still in the hands of A. A starts to dribble and I call double dribble, coach says it's OK to start a new dribble after ball is touched. Did I blow the call?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zac
Player A picks up dribble, player B touches the ball while it is still in the hands of A. A starts to dribble and I call double dribble, coach says it's OK to start a new dribble after ball is touched. Did I blow the call?

No, you got it right.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by zac
Player A picks up dribble, player B touches the ball while it is still in the hands of A. A starts to dribble and I call double dribble, coach says it's OK to start a new dribble after ball is touched. Did I blow the call?

No, unless that touch knocked the ball to the floor.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by blindzebra

No, unless that touch knocked the ball to the floor.

I doesn't have to be knocked to the floor for A1 to lose player control and therefore regain the right to dribble again. For A1 to lose player control, he would just have to not be holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. If B1 knocked the ball completely out of A1's hands, even if it was straight up in the air, A1 could then recover and dribble again.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

I doesn't have to be knocked to the floor for A1 to lose player control and therefore regain the right to dribble again. For A1 to lose player control, he would just have to not be holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. If B1 knocked the ball completely out of A1's hands, even if it was straight up in the air, A1 could then recover and dribble again.

Mark, I agree with you. I feel vindicated. Before I ever got into officiating, I coached AAU ball. We had a similar sitch happen in a title game and the official called a travel on us. His explanation was that the ball never touched the floor. Being a good coach (hmmmmm). I let it go. BTW, there was 10 seconds left in the game when we had the ball and the travel was called. I had a great play all set up and I'll never know if it would have worked. C'est la vi!
__________________________________________________ _______
"If there is anything disagreeable going on men are always sure to get out of it".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Mark, I agree with you. I feel vindicated. Before I ever got into officiating, I coached AAU ball. We had a similar sitch happen in a title game and the official called a travel on us. His explanation was that the ball never touched the floor. Being a good coach (hmmmmm). I let it go. BTW, there was 10 seconds left in the game when we had the ball and the travel was called. I had a great play all set up and I'll never know if it would have worked. C'est la vi!

It didn't have to be touched in the air by an "opponent" either to have both player and team control end. They both end with touching by a teammate also.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

I doesn't have to be knocked to the floor for A1 to lose player control and therefore regain the right to dribble again. For A1 to lose player control, he would just have to not be holding or dribbling a live ball inbounds. If B1 knocked the ball completely out of A1's hands, even if it was straight up in the air, A1 could then recover and dribble again.

You don't have player control if you fumble, but you can't dribble, fumble, dribble can you?

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

It didn't have to be touched in the air by an "opponent" either to have both player and team control end. They both end with touching by a teammate also.

Good point JR, thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

You don't have player control if you fumble, but you can't dribble, fumble, dribble can you?

You don't have player control during that fumble, but you still maintain the original team control. That's why you can't legally dribble again when you recover your own fumble. If another player touched the ball anytime during that fumble though, team control is immediately lost- and whoever subsequently gets control of the ball now starts a brand new player control (and team control also), and thus can legally dribble, pass, shoot, etc.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If another player touched the ball anytime during that fumble though, team control is immediately lost-

Since when did "touching" a loose ball establish team control? Team A can only lose team control if there is a try or tap for goal, if there is a dead ball or if team B gains team control. For team B to gain team control, one of B's players would have to establish player control. That means a team B player would have to be dribbling or holding a live ball inbounds.

I guess you could rule that, if following the touch by B1, the ball hit the floor, it was a dribble by B1. However, whether you can or cannot continue a dribble is determined by player, not team, control.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Since when did "touching" a loose ball establish team control? Team A can only lose team control if there is a try or tap for goal, if there is a dead ball or if team B gains team control. For team B to gain team control, one of B's players would have to establish player control. That means a team B player would have to be dribbling or holding a live ball inbounds.

I guess you could rule that, if following the touch by B1, the ball hit the floor, it was a dribble by B1. However, whether you can or cannot continue a dribble is determined by player, not team, control.

This is another one of those,"There is not a play in the case book to cover this," situations.

4-15-4-d says B1 touching ENDS the dribble, but it does not say it ends A1's ended dribble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Since when did "touching" a loose ball establish team control? Team A can only lose team control if there is a try or tap for goal, if there is a dead ball or if team B gains team control. For team B to gain team control, one of B's players would have to establish player control. That means a team B player would have to be dribbling or holding a live ball inbounds.

I guess you could rule that, if following the touch by B1, the ball hit the floor, it was a dribble by B1. However, whether you can or cannot continue a dribble is determined by player, not team, control.

Right. Same A team control throughout. A1 had two separate player controls because of the touching by another player during the fumble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

This is another one of those,"There is not a play in the case book to cover this," situations.

4-15-4-d says B1 touching ENDS the dribble, but it does not say it ends A1's ended dribble.

The rules reference would be Rule 9-5-3- "A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of a pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player".

[Nevadaref]

JR, pleads temporary insanity during his earlier post!