Off refresher test

[Back In The Saddle]

It can be a little confusing to look at all three options in 4-36-2 and try to figure out which one applies. I find it more helpful to think of them as an ordered list. Check 'em off one at a time; go with the first one that applies. Don't even consider the third option unless the first two don't cover the sitch.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

It can be a little confusing to look at all three options in 4-36-2 and try to figure out which one applies. I find it more helpful to think of them as an ordered list. Check 'em off one at a time; go with the first one that applies. Don't even consider the third option unless the first two don't cover the sitch.

Wouldn't it be much easier like we did it in the old days and put the ball back into play with a jump ball after a double foul. We wouldn't need a Ph.D. in Engineering (I have a bachelor's degree in engineering with a double major) and I still think the rule is a mess.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. And no we were not restarting the game with a jump ball after every field goal when I started officiating.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Wouldn't it be much easier like we did it in the old days and put the ball back into play with a jump ball after a double foul. . . I still think the rule is a mess.

What is really so hard about this rule? If the double foul happens:

• during a free throw or throw-in, you resume with the free throw or throw-in;
• after a foul or violation, then you resume by administering the penalty for the foul or violation;
• while the ball's in play and there's team control, then you simply give a throw-in to the team in control;
• when there is no team control, and there's no way to know who would've gotten the ball, then -- and only then -- you go to the arrow.

It's actually really simple. Just ask yourself, "What would've happened if the whistle had not blown?" If you answer that you don't know, then go to the arrow. Otherwise, just do what you were going to do next anyway.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What is really so hard about this rule? If the double foul happens:

• during a free throw or throw-in, you resume with the free throw or throw-in;
• after a foul or violation, then you resume by administering the penalty for the foul or violation;
• while the ball's in play and there's team control, then you simply give a throw-in to the team in control;
• when there is no team control, and there's no way to know who would've gotten the ball, then -- and only then -- you go to the arrow.

It's actually really simple. Just ask yourself, "What would've happened if the whistle had not blown?" If you answer that you don't know, then go to the arrow. Otherwise, just do what you were going to do next anyway.

Bingo!
This isn't rocket surgery, and it doesn't take a brain scientist to figure it out.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What is really so hard about this rule? If the double foul happens:

• during a free throw or throw-in, you resume with the free throw or throw-in;
• after a foul or violation, then you resume by administering the penalty for the foul or violation;
• while the ball's in play and there's team control, then you simply give a throw-in to the team in control;
• when there is no team control, and there's no way to know who would've gotten the ball, then -- and only then -- you go to the arrow.

It's actually really simple. Just ask yourself, "What would've happened if the whistle had not blown?" If you answer that you don't know, then go to the arrow. Otherwise, just do what you were going to do next anyway.

Scrapper:

Look how many different situations we would eliminate from the rules if we just went to a jump ball; we would not have so many rules in the book that cause such stupid rulings.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Look how many different situations we would eliminate from the rules if we just went to a jump ball; we would not have so many rules in the book that cause such stupid rulings.

No way. Don't you remember doing junior high school girls games with dozens of jump balls?

I'd prefer to keep the rules regarding jump balls just the way they are, with just two minor changes. I would eliminate the jump that starts the game, and I would eliminate the jump ball that starts each overtime period.

Let's flip a coin like they do in football, and soccer. I'll bring the coin.

[fiasco]

I stand corrected! Thanks for the help.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Look how many different situations we would eliminate from the rules if we just went to a jump ball;

You're right. We would eliminate 4 very easily remembered situations from the rules. We would also give the defense a chance for an extra possession that they really don't deserve (since both teams fouled).

we would not have so many rules in the book that cause such stupid rulings.

I simply disagree that this is a stupid ruling. How is simply continuing the game from where it left off stupid? I really just don't understand your objection to this.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

You're right. We would eliminate 4 very easily remembered situations from the rules. We would also give the defense a chance for an extra possession that they really don't deserve (since both teams fouled).

I simply disagree that this is a stupid ruling. How is simply continuing the game from where it left off stupid? I really just don't understand your objection to this.

Scrapper1:

The game was played for many many years before with no ill effect with POI and AP. I am not against progress, far from it. I just do not believe in making changes just to make changes or making changes without actually analyzing how those changes affect the entire game. The only thing that has changed about the game in the last 50 years is the skill and size of players. The game today could be played under rules that were in place 50 years ago and it would be just as enjoyable now as it was then.

MTD, Sr.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

The game was played for many many years before with no ill effect with POI and AP. . . . The game today could be played under rules that were in place 50 years ago and it would be just as enjoyable now as it was then.

That could very well be true. But that doesn't make the POI definition a stupid ruling. The POI for double fouls and accidental whistles is a vast improvement over using a jump ball for such situations. Just continue the game where you left off. That makes perfect sense to me. Much more sense than literally putting the ball up for grabs.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What is really so hard about this rule? If the double foul happens:

• during a free throw or throw-in, you resume with the free throw or throw-in;
• after a foul or violation, then you resume by administering the penalty for the foul or violation;
• while the ball's in play and there's team control, then you simply give a throw-in to the team in control;
• when there is no team control, and there's no way to know who would've gotten the ball, then -- and only then -- you go to the arrow.

It's actually really simple. Just ask yourself, "What would've happened if the whistle had not blown?" If you answer that you don't know, then go to the arrow. Otherwise, just do what you were going to do next anyway.

Nice. Did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night?

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Wouldn't it be much easier like we did it in the old days and put the ball back into play with a jump ball after a double foul. We wouldn't need a Ph.D. in Engineering (I have a bachelor's degree in engineering with a double major) and I still think the rule is a mess.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. And no we were restarting the game with a jump ball after every field goal when I started officiating.

Yeah I agree. In fact that is the NBA rule

It just seems like this and many other rules are so botched with complexity that its not really needed. IMO

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And no we were restarting the game with a jump ball after every field goal when I started officiating.

What did you do with the ball after you got it out of the peach basket?