Rate my partner - Page 5

ChuckElias · #1 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris
Do we ascribe the 9-2-11 ruling to the 10-1-5 ruling because they both have the same intent?

I vote yes

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris
Hold on a second, the suggested ploy involved knocking the ball away after a made basket in order to draw a first warning. This warning is covered under 10-1-5(d). The case book citation you have offered involves a boundary plane warning in the last five seconds. These are two distinctly different warnings. The case book for 10-1-5(d) doesn't have the "last second tactic" situation included. Do we ascribe the 9-2-11 ruling to the 10-1-5 ruling because they both have the same intent?

I was simply responding to Chuck's question to Mark, with regards to where the 5 second or less play was located in the case book. My reply was not meant to address anything other than that.

With regards to knocing the ball away to get a delay of game penalty, I'm not stopping the game in that situation. I'll retreive the ball myself, with the clock running and toss it to the thrower.

Hawks Coach · #3 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 05:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Actually had that happen during AAU regionals. We called TO as soon as we made the basket (2 players signalled for it and I did - one was right under the basket!), official missed all three initial requests, ball was being inbounded when he finally noticed and granted the TO. In reality, the TO should have been granted upon request but he was not sufficiently aware to see three diffferent people request the TO. He should never have granted it at the time he did.

The official that granted the timeout realized he made an error, and loked at a loss as to what should be done. It appeared that he was going to just put the ball back in play. Due to discussions on this forum, I knew what the right call should be - inadvertent whistle, TO granted. He and his partner got together and his partner called us over and explained the call (just as stated above). Opposing coach was livid, I was glad we got what we had legitimately requested and had been ignored. Neither of us was happy with official #1.

Coach, was this boys or girls, NF or NCAA?

It was girls, NF (with NCAA womens rules on FTs) standard AAU.

Hawks Coach · #4 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 05:54pm

Tony
Why was it relevant NCAA vs NF, boys vs girls? I don't know NCAA that well, but once you have a whistle and a stoppage, I can get a timeout, right? This is true even if the whistle was the result of an original request for a TO when I couldn't legitimately request one, but you erroneously gave me one anyway. Regardless of what set of rules we use. Once you stop play, you have to administer an inbounds, and before you hand the ball over, I can ask for a timeout legitimately. And you then should grant it, even if the inbounds shouldn't have been happening.

BktBallRef · #5 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 09:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Tony
Why was it relevant NCAA vs NF, boys vs girls? I don't know NCAA that well, but once you have a whistle and a stoppage, I can get a timeout, right? This is true even if the whistle was the result of an original request for a TO when I couldn't legitimately request one, but you erroneously gave me one anyway. Regardless of what set of rules we use. Once you stop play, you have to administer an inbounds, and before you hand the ball over, I can ask for a timeout legitimately. And you then should grant it, even if the inbounds shouldn't have been happening.

No, not in NCAA. In NCAA, once the error is recognized, play resumes. You can't be granted the timeout in such a case. The interpretation is different than in NF play.

In NC, we use straight NCAA Women's rules for girls. My understanding is that's what's used at the national level. That's why I questioned what rules you were playing under.

Mark Dexter · #6 (**permalink**) Thu May 16, 2002, 10:31pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Barry C. Morris
Hold on a second, the suggested ploy involved knocking the ball away after a made basket in order to draw a first warning. This warning is covered under 10-1-5(d). The case book citation you have offered involves a boundary plane warning in the last five seconds. These are two distinctly different warnings. The case book for 10-1-5(d) doesn't have the "last second tactic" situation included. Do we ascribe the 9-2-11 ruling to the 10-1-5 ruling because they both have the same intent?

No - I was just pointing out a slightly different situation which would be illegal.

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Fri May 17, 2002, 05:11am

The NCAA women's angle would have made this a more interesting call in the medal rounds. In preliminaries, we only employ the FT rule. In the medal round, we use "modified NCAA" women's rules, which I take to mean NF modified by using other NCAA women's rules we happen to know employed the way we think they work

So in the medal round we add the shot clock and eliminate the 10 second BC count (but also count 5 sec closely guarded). However, I don't think we add in this rule for inadvertent TOs, or ay other subtle rule differences.

dblref · #8 (**permalink**) Fri May 17, 2002, 05:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by dblref
You don't seem to be having much luck with "our" officials. I assume you are talking about the recent action at Westfields/Jefferson. If so, unfortunately, in these situations you see the best and the worst of "our" officials. Quite a few of our varsity officials will not, for some unknown reason, work AAU ball. I would much rather work girls AAU than girls rec leagues.

dblref, are your NCAA girls games played under NF or NCAA rules? Does Hawks coach have girls or boys?

Tony - seems to depend on the particular AAU tournament. Sometimes it is strictly NF, and sometimes it is modified NCAA rules -- usually dealing with number of players on the lane for F/T and going on the release vs waiting for it to hit. There is normally a "tourney rules" sheet for us at the table. Hawks Coach has girls team, but I think I remember him saying he has more than one team. I'm sure he will see this and correct me if I am wrong.

dblref · #9 (**permalink**) Fri May 17, 2002, 05:56am

Tony:

Should have read the entire thread before replying. I see that Hawks Coach has already addressed your question and I forgot about the 30 second clock being added in the later rounds. In VA, we use straight NF rules except for girls private schools where the 30 second clock is used in all varsity games, and I think (senior moment) it is sometimes not used in JV games. I don't recall private school girls having freshman teams. My association does not do a lot of private schools. I think most of the games are handled by an IAABO board in the Distric of Columbia and MD.