Late Time outs

[Dan_ref]

This was wrtten by Jurasic deep within another thread:

Hawks Coach,try this one on for size.Eight seconds to go,A scores and is down 1 point,A calls TO after B grabs ball and is just stepping over the end line for throw-in---noting that you certainly know the rule,what do you want called if:
1)You are the A coach.
2)You are the B coach.

I think it deserves it's own thread. I, for one, have
made "late" TO calls after a made basket and I do it
because almost always neither coache complains. On the
other hand, if I don't grant the TO one of the coaches
is very, very p***ed, and he is correct because I should
have anticipated the TO call. Well?

[Hawks Coach]

And to add my reply from that thread, I don't have a different opinion of the rule based on the bench on which I sit. I favor granting the TO as well. I would expect it if I request it, and certainly not gripe if it was granted and we have yet to get the ball OOB for the throw-in. I believe that is the spirit of the rule and the way it is normally enforced.

Other experiences and opinions may differ - fire at will

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
This was wrtten by Jurasic deep within another thread:

I think it deserves it's own thread. I, for one, have
made "late" TO calls after a made basket and I do it
because almost always neither coache complains. On the
other hand, if I don't grant the TO one of the coaches
is very, very p***ed, and he is correct because I should
have anticipated the TO call. Well?

My own feeling is that the key word is "late".Late means that you shouldn't really grant the TO request under the rules.If you do,you're putting yourself into the game as a possible factor when you shouldn't be.Instead of the team in-bounding the ball being able to legally run 4.9 seconds off the clock before doing something,you're saving the defensive team that time as well as allowing them to set up on defense.I don't have a problem with granting a TO before the team throwing it in gets over the end line,or if they're just standing there in-bounds wasting time.You have to be fair to both teams.JMO.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

There really is not enough information in the description of the play to give a ruling.

As an official, I will listening for a coach to request a time-out as soon as the top of the ball clears the bottom of the basket. If the coach makes the request at any time after the top of the ball has cleared the bottom of the net and before the ball is at the disposable of Team A for a throw-in, then I will grant Team B's request for a time-out. Before I grant Team B's request for a time-out I have to confirm that it was Coach B that made the request. If it was Coach B making the request then I grant the request even if the ball is now at the disposable of Team A for a throw-in. The key is: When the request is made, not when the official sounds his whistle to grant the request.

[rcwilco]

Depends upon the scenario, if B is standing under the basket, catches the ball as it goes through the net, and at the same time takes one quick step behind the endline, and bounces on his foot back across the endline, there really was not a chance for the time out to be called. I would hope that as a crew we are watching for A to call a time out and give them one if they are signaling as the ball goes through. However, if B takes their time, thereby giving A ample and fair opportunity to call (request) a time out and A does not take advantage of that, then I would not grant it.
Any time outs before this, near the end of the game should have had this scenario discussed by the officials as they get together to talk.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
There really is not enough information in the description of the play to give a ruling.

As an official, I will listening for a coach to request a time-out as soon as the top of the ball clears the bottom of the basket. If the coach makes the request at any time after the top of the ball has cleared the bottom of the net and before the ball is at the disposable of Team A for a throw-in, then I will grant Team B's request for a time-out. Before I grant Team B's request for a time-out I have to confirm that it was Coach B that made the request. If it was Coach B making the request then I grant the request even if the ball is now at the disposable of Team A for a throw-in. The key is: When the request is made, not when the official sounds his whistle to grant the request.

Mark,what more information do you need?B has gotten possession of the ball after an A basket and is just crossing the endline with it.A(player or coach)requests a TO.Do you grant it or not?The sitch is specific and so is the question.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Mark,what more information do you need?B has gotten possession of the ball after an A basket and is just crossing the endline with it.A(player or coach)requests a TO.Do you grant it or not?The sitch is specific and so is the question.

Sorry about that. I guess I am going senile. As Emily Latessa would say: "Nevermind."

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
There really is not enough information in the description of the play to give a ruling.

As an official, I will listening for a coach to request a time-out as soon as the top of the ball clears the bottom of the basket.

Well, that's the problem. Sometimes we're otherwise
engaged, like maybe keeping an eye on the 2 big guys
who have been going at it the last 5 minutes, or maybe you
don't know if the coach is yelling "Time out!" or "Tyrone"
in the loud gym (it's happened to me), or whatever.
Anyway, the sitch is clear, you didn't notice that Coach A
wants a TO until B1 has the ball for the throw in.
What do you do now?

Again I say give the guy the TO. No one will complain,
IMO and if they do you can easily convince coach B that
you did the right thing, just make sure he gets to run the
endline. If the coach *clearly* requests TO too late then
don't grant it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Dan,I can see where you're coming from.It IS easy to explain to the B coach.You just tell him you recognised the TO request before you blew the whistle to grant it.Not much that he can argue there.The problem I still have is this particular case where I KNOW I shouldn't be granting the TO,by rule.I also know that there is a possibility that I might affect the outcome of the game by granting a TO that I shouldn't have.I've never had a problem making a tough call at the end of the game.I just want to know,in my mind,that I've made the right call.
Maybe I'm being way too anal on this.I'd sure like to see what some other guys on the Board think.

[Kelvin green]

Here's my two cents...
I hate the NF rule in this situation of calling a time out. It doesnt not make sense. All other timeouts either happen during a whistled dead ball or while in player possession.
I dont think that the team who kust scored should be able to stop the clock. I would like to see the clock stop after a made basket (NCAA/NBA) and then see a rule consistently written so that time outs must be called when a team is in player possession. BTW this would stop the defense trying to call time outs in a couple of other wierd situations too, like to coaches who like to rattle the shooter and have the players call time out during a FT while ball is being bounced.

We know everybody wants the clock stopped. so let's just stop it like the NCAA/NBA and get on with the game. just my two cents

[Hawks Coach]

kelvin
At all levels, the team that made the basket can then call TO. The only difference is whether or not the clock is already stopped.

As a coach under NF rules, sometimes you call the TO after basket strictly to get the clock stoppage. More frequently, you do this to ensure you have the right press completely set up, know which players are going to foul if you need to, maybe even sub in your reserve 2 guard who has a couple of fouls to burn so your point guard doesn't foul out. You may be calling these timeouts to prevent the quick inbounds from beating your press. So really, the timing issue frequently has little to do with why these TOs are called. And the TO rule is the same at all levels, from my observation.

[Kelvin green]

Coach
What I am advocating is the NBA rule. In the NBA a team who just scoored cannot call time out. I agree with you that they can in other rules. My point that it is one of the very few times if only time that a player can call the ball without posession, or play not being

I understand what your saying about the plays etc. but I am not sure that what you describe should happen. I am not convinced that the team who just scored should be able to call time out. In some circumstances that you describe, I think it gives a hughe advantage to the new defense that I am not sure they should have.

As long as it is the rule I cannot and will not fault a coach for trying to use it to his advantage.

[Hawks Coach]

Thanks for the clarification - I was unaware that the scoring team could not call TO in the NBA - I thought that they could, but upon further review, I can't recall it happening. Guess I never paid that much attention.

One big differeence I see though is that NBA teams rarely gets steals off a press, they just end up fouling anyway, so why burn the TO at that level? The higher the level, the more it just turns into a foul fest and with the clock stoppage on a made basket, I am not sure that this rule really influences the NBA that much.

I happen to like the NF rule - you score and are quickwitted enough to get your TO, more power to you. Scoring carries with it that brief advantage, which just seems to make sense to me.