Clock reads 0:00

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

Like I said I would probably use it, but what happens if you have an operator who is a hair slow in getting the clock started and you are blowing your whistle before the horn goes off? You would be stuck justifying a rule that technically doesn't exist in the situation given. The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

Originally Posted by slow whistle

The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

By rule, yes...

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

By rule, yes...

By a rule that states within itself that it does not apply if there are no 10ths indicated on the clock...so in the situation given the answer is "by rule, no"...just playing devil's advocate here, I actually wonder why they even bother putting that statement in 5-2-5 about the rule not applying if there are no 10ths of a second given on the clock. If they are not 10ths shown on the board then you would normally assume that the officials have no way to know how many 10ths are left anyways (which turns out to not be true in this case w/ the control module) which makes a rule covering what you can do in 3/10ths or less pointless!

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

By rule, yes...

The one out you could have is that 5-2-5 states that it does not apply if the "clock" does not display 10ths of a second...it doesn't say anything about the "scoreboard" having to display the 10ths...in the original situation since the module shows 10ths, maybe that is enough for you to be allowed to use it...

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Like I said I would probably use it, but what happens if you have an operator who is a hair slow in getting the clock started and you are blowing your whistle before the horn goes off? You would be stuck justifying a rule that technically doesn't exist in the situation given. The 3/10ths rule just gives us an automatic out when we have it available, but does that mean that it is absolutely without a doubt impossible to catch and shoot in 3/10ths or less?

The reason the rule exists is because a study was done and it showed that it's not possible for a player to catch and get off a shot in .3 seconds or less. So therefore, yes, it is impossible for it to happen. And so if you have a clock that doesn't show 10ths on the scoreboard, but does show 10ths on the console, if you see that there are .3 seconds or less, you cannot allow a catch and shoot whether the clock operator starts the clock late or not. If someone attemoted a catch and shoot in that situation, you would immediately signal no shot and blow the whistle to end the quarter if the clock operator is late starting the clock. If there are more than .3 seconds, you have to use your best judgment whether a shot gets off before the expiration of time.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

They did play on in Josh's situation. However, when play started the horn never did end up sounding. So he was asking, tongue-in-cheek, if that means the game should still be playing now. Not if they should have continued playing the game.

This Sunday, obviously the horn sounded because there was, in fact, a half second left but I have had the aforementioned situation also occur in the past. We were unsure of the correct ruling so we discussed it with each other then conveyed our decision to the teams. Like I said before, these were a good bunch of guys so there was no gripping or complaints. Thanks for all the thoughts gentleman

-Josh

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

Would be clearer if 5-2-5 substituted "scoreboard" for "clock"...by saying "clock" you leave open just such a situation where the clock module shows the 10ths but the scoreboard does not....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It might be "common sense", but it's wrong. The consoles had 1/10s before the scoreboards did (or, at least there were plenty of places that had such consoles without having the corresponding scoreboard).

Good coaches would ask about the "console time" in the last second, or so (socreboard shows 0:00), to determine if they had time to pass and shoot (console indicates, say, 0:00.9) or just catch and shoot (console indicates 0:00.4) after a throw-in.

The rule about "tap only" applies only if the scoreboard shows 1/10s -- it doesn't matter what the console shows.

So you're saying if the home team is ahead by 1 point with .2 seconds on the console (no tenths on the scoreboard, but you know there are only .2 seconds on the console) and the visiting team has a throw-in with a catch and shoot and the timer is a fraction of a second late in starting the clock, and the shot goes in, you would count the basket?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm pretty sure that the intent of the stated rule was for scoreboards which have control modules that also don't display 10th of a second. Using common sense, if the control module DOES show 10ths of seconds, why wouldn't you use that information? You certainly can use that information to determine whether a catch and shoot is possible. If you don't use that information, then you are not using good common sense.

Then how would anybody know how many 10th's of a second remained?

The way the rule is written it must be addressing venues where the modules shows 10th's but the scoreboard doesn't.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then how would anybody know how many 10th's of a second remained?

The way the rule is written it must be addressing venues where the modules shows 10th's but the scoreboard doesn't.

You've never seen a scoreboard that doesn't show 10ths and neither does the console? That's why no one would know how many tenths are left and therefore why you couldn't know if there was .3 seconds or not - therefore the rule.

I don't see how you could come to the conclusion in your second sentence. It just makes no sense whatsoever to me that if you know there are .2 seconds left based on the console, you wouldn't use that information.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You've never seen a scoreboard that doesn't show 10ths and neither does the console? That's why no one would know how many tenths are left and therefore why you couldn't know if there was .3 seconds or not - therefore the rule.

I don't see how you could come to the conclusion in your second sentence. It just makes no sense whatsoever to me that if you know there are .2 seconds left based on the console, you wouldn't use that information.

I think his/her last sentence is in reference to the way the rule is written which is the point I was trying to make earlier. What is the only situation that could exist where you would need to make the statement "rule does not apply if the clock does not display 10ths of a second"?

Here are the possible scenarios:

1) Scoreboard shows 10ths - we're good there
2) Neither scoreboard nor consold shows 10ths - above quote is irrelevant b/c you have no way to know how many 10ths remain
3) Scoreboard does not show 10th's, but console does - this is the only time you could possibly apply the above quote where it would make any sense at all.

So it is one of two conclusions for me....either the fed put in a statement that is completely irrelevant and has no meaning whatsoever, or it was meant to apply in a situation just like this one.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Are you suggesting that we use the information from the control module to enforce the 3/10's rule, even if it's NOT displayed on the game clock?

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

I could buy that interpretation, however, I think the statement is completely irrelevant then. Doesn't it go without saying that if there is no idea how many 10ths are left then you can't apply a rule that is based on 10ths of a second?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely. It doesn't say scoreboard, it says clock.

Rule 6-2 When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and 3/10 (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, no field goal may be scored by a try for goal. In this situation a tap could score.
NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.

The "clock" is actually in the box on the table. The scoreboard is just one of possibly many displays showing how much time is on the clock. The display on the control module is another such display. The rule doesn't specify where the 10ths need to be displayed...just that they are displayed. If any display shows 10ths, then the 10ths are displayed and are to be used.

Additionally, the note about "not displaing tenths" exists simply to say that the 3/10ths rule doesn't apply when the official can't know the precise amount of time remaining....it is not intended to require that all displays show the precise information.

Camron,
You are failing to follow the sound advice of "always listen to Bob!"

The tenths need to be on the visible game clock, which is the one that can be seen by the players during the game. The console at the table doesn't meet that requirement.

According to 1-15 your official clock has to be a visible game clock.