Inadvertent Whistle limit

[Loudwhistle]

A friend of mine was telling me a story that brought a question to mind that I will ask at the end of this:

First year JV boys coach is getting waxed by about 40 points in his first home game. A lot of his players have fouled out and there's about 20 seconds left to play in the game. He has four players left in the game and as his least experienced player #5 dribbles by his bench he loudly yells across the gym to him "Call Something" meaning call a play number out and then do it. He yelled coincidentally at his player just as the referee is going by so the official turns to the coach thinking he was the one that was yelled at and whacks him with a T! The reff signaled the T and everyone in the gym saw it, and when the coach tried to explain he was talking to his player the reff ignored him. Free throws were shot and the game finally ended. The coach really was yelling at his player according to information learned after the game. My question is at what point can a call be changed to an inadvertent whistle? The times I've gone with an inadvertent whistle is before I've communicated with the crowd what the infraction was. Thoughts?

Thanks

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

The times I've gone with an inadvertent whistle is before I've communicated with the crowd what the infraction was. Thoughts?

Here's my thought. When do you communicate with the crowd? Is it before or after you've communicated with the table?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

A friend of mine was telling me a story that brought a question to mind that I will ask at the end of this:

First year JV boys coach is getting waxed by about 40 points in his first home game. A lot of his players have fouled out and there's about 20 seconds left to play in the game. He has four players left in the game and as his least experienced player #5 dribbles by his bench he loudly yells across the gym to him "Call Something" meaning call a play number out and then do it. He yelled coincidentally at his player just as the referee is going by so the official turns to the coach thinking he was the one that was yelled at and whacks him with a T! The reff signaled the T and everyone in the gym saw it, and when the coach tried to explain he was talking to his player the reff ignored him. Free throws were shot and the game finally ended. The coach really was yelling at his player according to information learned after the game. My question is at what point can a call be changed to an inadvertent whistle? The times I've gone with an inadvertent whistle is before I've communicated with the crowd what the infraction was. Thoughts?

Thanks

What's in red gets a T from me as well. If you believe that it was "coincidental" or buy the explanation underlined in black, then I have some land to sell you.

As for you real question about when is it too late to deem a whistle to be accidental, I would say up until the penalty that comes with blowing it is enforced.

[BillyMac]

Nevaderef was kind enough to post this a few weeks ago:

5.8.3 Situation E: A1 is dribbling the ball in his/her backcourt when: (a) the Team B head coach requests and is erroneously granted a time-out by an official; or (b) the Team A head coach is yelling "side out" offensive instructions to his/her team and the official stops play believing the coach requested a time-out. RULING: In (a), Team B is entitled to use the time-out since it was requested and granted; once granted it cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are available to both teams. Play will resume with a Team A throw-in nearest to where play was stopped. In (b), an accidental whistle has occurred. Team A was not requesting a time-out, and therefore, should not be granted or charged with one. Play is resumed at the point of interruption. (4-36-1; 4-36-2a)

Not the same exact situation, timeout versus a technical foul, but I believe that purpose and intent apply in the original poster's situation as well as Nevadaref's new casebook play.

Also, I would never buy some land without seeing it first, but I did purchase this bridge in Brooklyn, New York. I'm no fool. I took the train down to New York, and saw it before I bought it. I got a real good deal on it. I figure that I could set up some toll booths on it and make some money. Maybe I'll sell the naming rights to some big company. How does the "Colgate Palmolive Bridge In Brooklyn" sound?

[JugglingReferee]

Officials do need to be highly aware of situations like these. An automatic T is not a good thing, imho.

A first year JV coach likely doesn't think about such things as to yell instructions to his players when an official isn't nearby. I can't say for certain, since I wasn't there, but based on your account, it certainly sounds like this T is unwarranted.

In my entire career, I've actually taken back 1 T. It happened after I learned more info from my P. Ya, it didn't look good, but it was the right call.

One way to quickly move up from JV to V is to understand people, and that includes understanding how first year JV coaching works.

[Back In The Saddle]

First of all, we really don't know enough of the context in which this took place. So it's impossible to comment directly on whether it was warranted or not. Perhaps this same, alleged first year JV coach has been on the crew the whole game begging for calls and generally being an ***. This frequently happens in lower level games when the team is getting beat and the coach can't figure out what else to do.

Second, this is where JV coaches learn those lessons. Perhaps he was only coaching his team. Perhaps. I'll bet he won't make that same mistake again. Not if he's actually smart enough to be a V coach some day.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How does the "Colgate Palmolive Bridge In Brooklyn" sound?

Not as good as the "Viagra Space Needle" in Seattle would.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

A friend of mine was telling me a story that brought a question to mind that I will ask at the end of this:

First year JV boys coach is getting waxed by about 40 points in his first home game. A lot of his players have fouled out and there's about 20 seconds left to play in the game. He has four players left in the game and as his least experienced player #5 dribbles by his bench he loudly yells across the gym to him "Call Something" meaning call a play number out and then do it. He yelled coincidentally at his player just as the referee is going by so the official turns to the coach thinking he was the one that was yelled at and whacks him with a T! The reff signaled the T and everyone in the gym saw it, and when the coach tried to explain he was talking to his player the reff ignored him. Free throws were shot and the game finally ended. The coach really was yelling at his player according to information learned after the game. My question is at what point can a call be changed to an inadvertent whistle? The times I've gone with an inadvertent whistle is before I've communicated with the crowd what the infraction was. Thoughts?

Thanks

Depends.... If the coach hadn't bothered the refs all night and had been showing clear frustration at only the players, I'd tend to believe the coach. The situation tends to support the coach's claim.

As for when you can pull a IA....clearly you can do so prior to reporting it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Not as good as the "Viagra Space Needle" in Seattle would.

Wife says to husband, "How about some breakfast?".
Husband replies, "No thanks. This Viagra takes away my appetite".
Several hours go by.
Wife says to husband, "Do you want me to make us some lunch?".
Husband replies, "No. The Viagra just kills my appetite."
Several hours go by.
Wife says to husband, "How about I make us a nice dinner?".
Husband replies, "No thanks. It's the Viagra. I'm still not hungry".
Wife says, "Well then get off of me, I'm starving".

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Wife says to husband, "How about some breakfast?".
Husband replies, "No thanks. This Viagra takes away my appetite".
Several hours go by.
Wife says to husband, "Do you want me to make us some lunch?".
Husband replies, "No. The Viagra just kills my appetite."
Several hours go by.
Wife says to husband, "How about I make us a nice dinner?".
Husband replies, "No thanks. It's the Viagra. I'm still not hungry".
Wife says, "Well then get off of me, I'm starving".

At my age, the only thing Viagra does is keep me from rolling out of bed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

This is where JV coaches learn those lessons. Perhaps he was only coaching his team. Perhaps. I'll bet he won't make that same mistake again. Not if he's actually smart enough to be a V coach some day.

This has got to be the first time the words "JV coach", and, "smart", have appeared in the same Forum post, at the same time. Are we becoming more tolerant, or what?

Maybe we should all get together and sing "Kum By Yah", or "We Are The World". Does anybody have a pitch pipe?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This has got to be the first time the words "JV coach", and, "smart", have appeared in the same Forum post, at the same time. Are we becoming more tolerant, or what?

Maybe we should all get together and sing "Kum By Yah", or "We Are The World". Does anybody have a pitch pipe?

You failed to highlight the word "if". That's key to the discussion

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

You failed to highlight the word "if". That's key to the discussion

I would only add that you set the bar fairly low to begin with.