Coach drags out the rule book

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You might be able to catch M&M before he gets out of the visual whatevers, but no one else I know of will take that long getting off the court.

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[biz]

The high school league that I coach in allows protests to occur. The only league rules are that the protest must be made at or as close to the time of the (believed) infraction, and that you cannot protest a judgement call.

The protest is heard by the league athletic directors and the league commissioner at a special meeting. Our league rule superceeds the NF rule which doesn't allow protests. This is similar to our (MA) use of the shot clock although NF rules don't provide for one.

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would NEVER welcome a coach "pulling out the rule book" whether during the game or just after it ends.

I'd be much more likley to listen to a coach who ASKS, "Can we check the rule book?" or (even better) "Can you check with your partners?"

Originally Posted by CoachP

As not to hijack Fiascos thread about emailing or calling a coach, Here’s a new thread.



First of all, the Dean Smith/Bobby Knight comparison is apples and oranges. Not the “same theory”. Those are books chock full of opinions and strategies based on their experiences, not on rules. For example, there is not a rule that says I have to call a timeout when the opponent goes on a 10-0 run, nor do I have to switch on all screens. The rule book, however, is different. The officials’ job is to make sure a contest is finished where both teams play within a written set of rules.

Secondly, because of what I have learned here, I would never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never drag out a rule book during the course of a game. Nor would I promote it to other coaches. In fact, as an 8th year varsity coach, there is probably only one time where the thought even crossed my mind. (“Coach, the ball went in and we counted the basket, therefore it cannot be an intentional foul”)

Thirdly, the sitch I questioned:

Varsity level.
Team A down by one point. I am Coach A.
A1 hits jumper, end of game buzzer sounds as ball is passing thru basket as referee is blowing whistle for a foul on A2.
Ref waives off basket as explained in Fiasco's OP.

In this case, probably at the scorers table, there will be 2 coaches and 2-3 referees. If the referees confer that the basket is not counted, I WILL bring out my rule book. No fanfare, no stomping and snorting, just a simple rule discussion. I will not take it to the local watering hole. If the referees refuse to look at it or take offense, then the AD will be making a phone call.

Which would you prefer? A call from your assignor telling you that you kicked it -or- fix it before you leave?

Again, before I get flamed, my position is for THIS EXACT SITCH ONLY.

Tell me I'm wrong and defend it and I will take it like a man and learn.

I think this is a great situation. Now add to it that the winner of the game is going to the state semi-final game. It determines which officials are going to work the final the next night.

This is definitely going to decide the future of the crew.

Who is going to have the guts to say it is more important to get the play right?

IIRC, there was a play in the NBA or NCAA where an official went to the television monitor to get a play right. The officials might have gotten in trouble for using the monitor, but no one complained that they got it right. It brought replay to the game and it has helped.

In my opinion, all the assignors, state associations, teams etc. want is for rules to be correctly inforced. Would you rather be known as the official that got it right, or the guy who screwed up a rule and the game. Not sure what I would do, but if it prevented me from blowing the game, it could very well be worth it. Bringing out the rulebook is going to be a problem, but if something like what Bob suggested happened....

[Ref_in_Alberta]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Varsity level.
Team A down by one point. I am Coach A.
A1 hits jumper, end of game buzzer sounds as ball is passing thru basket as referee is blowing whistle for a foul on A2.
Ref waives off basket as explained in Fiasco's OP.

In this case, probably at the scorers table, there will be 2 coaches and 2-3 referees. If the referees confer that the basket is not counted, I WILL bring out my rule book. No fanfare, no stomping and snorting, just a simple rule discussion. I will not take it to the local watering hole. If the referees refuse to look at it or take offense, then the AD will be making a phone call.

Which would you prefer? A call from your assignor telling you that you kicked it -or- fix it before you leave?

Again, before I get flamed, my position is for THIS EXACT SITCH ONLY.

Tell me I'm wrong and defend it and I will take it like a man and learn.

My response to your question CoachP is this...

1. You as a coach (& your opposing coach) would be nowhere near where my partner(s) discuss this play. You (as a coach) do not get to inject your opinion on a rule in this case. You both would stay within the confines of your team bench area. So you would have no chance to pull out your copy of a rule book. Mine stays in the locker room, your's should be in your office.

2a. I would hope that my partner(s) and I would have enough guts to get the call right. Which of course is in the play as you described, is count the team a basket and report the foul. What I'd be questioning is if there is time left on the clock when the foul occurred. If the whistle is before the horn and I have definate knowledge of the time remaining, it's going back on the clock and if we're in the bonus/penalty we're shooting.

2b. If for whatever reason we get the play wrong and cancel the basket and the game is over. You won't be talking to me or my partner(s) either. We are leaving the court and getting to our locker room asap.

3. So to answer your question of if I'd rather fix it or hear about it from my assignor... well my first response is to get it right, however if we don't get it right, I'm going to hear about it from my assignor anyways, so I don't need the double whammy as it were.

Also, IMHO if a coach pulls out a rule book, they are getting a Technical Foul, to me this act is disrespectful (see below). Not that the following applies to you folks stateside, but I'm sure NF & NCAA rules have something similar to the following taken from the 2008 FIBA rules ...

38.1 Rules of conduct

38.1.1 The proper conduct of the game demands the full and loyal cooperation of the members of both teams (players, substitutes, coaches, assistant coaches, excluded players and team followers) with the officials, table officials and commissioner, if present.

38.1.2 Each team shall do its best to secure victory, but this must be done in the spirit of sportsmanship and fair play.

Under definitions it the FIBA book states:

38.3.1 A technical foul is a player non-contact foul of a behavioural nature including, but not limited to:

- Disrespectfully communicating with the officials, the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents.

My 2 cents...