Pass Goes Behind the Backboard, Through the Supports

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

hmmm...now I'm gonna have to run to school tonight and take my ball and go stand in the corner.

I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...





Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.

1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.

Not diagramed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard.

Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...



Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.

1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.

Not diagrammed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard. Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

Wow. Thanks for the effort. Confucius supposedly said, "One picture is worth a thousand words". If he said it, he was right. Now I understand what you mean.

[rainmaker]

Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

I agree with Jullie or is it Juulie??.....but... you da man!! Nice drawing.

[grunewar]

Yikes, heck of drawing is right!

I won't take out my rule book and shove it in a coaches face, ever.....but can you see waving off a basket stating it came over the backboard and when the coach calls a TO to "discuss", you reach into your back pocket and pull out CAMRON's art and say, "OK coach, let's review."

[mutantducky]

ouch this thread hurt my brain.
So to clarify because some things are getting jumbled

1.from baseline pass(out of bounds) illegal- pass goes over the backboard
For example after a made basket player is running the baseline and is underneath the backboard and throws a pass over the backboard that does not touch anything.
2.illegal- airball shot from in front or the side that goes over the backboard. Does play stop once it goes over?
3.illegal- shot hits the rim and goes over
4. illegal- shot from behind the backboard goes over and into the rim
5. Not 100% sure on this one- pass goes from the side between basketball supports without hitting anything.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

So to clarify because some things are getting jumbled

Here's the unjumbled version: it's a violation for any part of the ball to pass over any part of a rectangular backboard at any time.

Pass, shot, throw-in, front-to-back, back-to-front, side-to-side, whatever!! Doesn't matter. If the ball passes over the rectangular backboard, it's a violation.

AND, it's not a violation to pass BEHIND the backboard.

Hope that helps.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

It really didn't take that long....maybe 10 minutes using Visio for the diagram...and a few more minutes for the math.

[sseltser]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).

Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

Holy cosine batman!! Juulie and I were wrong. YOU have too much time on your hands.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by sseltser

Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

Can't disagree with your analysis....but I don't think we really need to worry about it since the ball needs to be coming straight down...something it can't realisticly do unless thrown from a position straight below that point. Any momentum it has from a real shot will negate the effect of your point....even if a shot just clears the mimimum legal (red) line, the ball will skim across the front of the rim and bounce out.