Pass Goes Behind the Backboard, Through the Supports

[Back In The Saddle]

For those whose books are not readily at hand...

NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction.

Had never really thought about it before, but I suppose a pass from one side of the key to the other, that passed over a rectangular backboard the long way, would also be illegal.

Question for the brain trust...How much of the ball must pass over the backboard? If only a portion of the ball passes over the corner of the backboard, is that illegal? Must it be the entire ball?

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

For those whose books are not readily at hand...

NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction.

Had never really thought about it before, but I suppose a pass from one side of the key to the other, that passed over a rectangular backboard the long way, would also be illegal.

Question for the brain trust...How much of the ball must pass over the backboard? If only a portion of the ball passes over the corner of the backboard, is that illegal? Must it be the entire ball?

Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........

That's at the heart of my question. The rule seems pretty black and white, with no exceptions listed. Except that "over" needs a little more defining when we start thinking about things like the shot from the corner. And, of course, if we allow this shot (which I think we should), then you have to ask "how much over, or how far over, is 'over'?".

[Adam]

I think you have to go back to the intent of this rule. The intent was not to disallow a shot from deep in the corner. The intent was to prevent the indefensible plays, as Camron noted.

To me, this is a clear example of when the spirit and intent should overrule what would be a violation by strict interpretation of the written rule.

Two, I've seen balls shot from the corner go in that did not go over the glass. I know it didn't because they grazed the side of the glass on the way by.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I think you have to go back to the intent of this rule. The intent was not to disallow a shot from deep in the corner. The intent was to prevent the indefensible plays, as Camron noted.

To me, this is a clear example of when the spirit and intent should overrule what would be a violation by strict interpretation of the written rule.

Two, I've seen balls shot from the corner go in that did not go over the glass. I know it didn't because they grazed the side of the glass on the way by.

Agree about the intent. But the wording of the rule, and presumably the intent of the rule makers, don't limit its enforcement to just the Wilt Chamberlain play. Which leaves us with the need to determine where between the corner shot and the Wilt play the ball is enough "over" that it's a violation.

The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Agree about the intent. But the wording of the rule, and presumably the intent of the rule makers, don't limit its enforcement to just the Wilt Chamberlain play. Which leaves us with the need to determine where between the corner shot and the Wilt play the ball is enough "over" that it's a violation.

The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.

On anything EXCEPT the George Mikan play, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. So, in all likelihood, the entire ball will have to pass over the backboard to be a violation. (especially since we are at an angle to the backboard, and far enough away for depth perception to be an issue)

On the George Mikan play (not that I ever expect to see it), I might be more strict.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.

I'm all for the coaches asking for that call. It will be a nice change of pace, instead of a steady diet of travel requests. I welcome variety

[Adam]

I've blown this call once, and nothing was said by the "offended" coach. Of course, I believe that was a sophomore game, and those coaches weren't particularly chippy anyway.

You're right, though; obviously the line is somewhere between the two plays. Personally, I put the line a lot closer to the Chamberlain/Mikan play than the shot in the corner. Legitimate shots can be defended normally.

To put it into practice, perhaps I lean towards thinking the entire ball has to be over the back board to qualify.

[Back In The Saddle]

I'm happy to go with the entire ball. That makes my life easier, it's relatively easy to judge, and is probably closer to the intent of the rule than any other option.

It doesn't sound like anybody knows of any official interp on this. Not even after the UCLA game last year?

[JS 20]

I went and re-read the rule and then asked myself why it was in place. The best thing I can come up with is that it puts the defense at a disadvantage to steal, tip, etc. the pass when you're behind the board and pass it over the top to someone on the other side. That said, the defense has the exact same opportunity to block the shot in the corner that they have anywhere else on the floor so it shouldn't matter in that instance. Just my $0.02

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........

Not possible....geometry

(from an post by me in March regarding a shot that went over the top)

Front tip of the rim is 24" from the backboard. Backboard is 6ft wide and 4ft from the baseline, lane is 12ft wide. The point on the baseline that leads over the corner to the very front tip of the rim is 3' outside the lane...and that is just to the front tip....an unmakeable point without crossing clearly over the top. The path to the center of the basket directly over the corner and from the baseline starts 4.5' outside the lane....and that spot is just barely makeable on a lucky day.

So, the line from the corner (25' from the center of the court on the baseline) has plenty of room to clear the edge of the backboard. If it does go over the top, then there is no way it is going to be in line to go in....it's not going to be on a makable path. The path to the basket for any baseline shot (not near the baseline...direclty over it) beyond 10.5 feet from the center of the court is not over the backboard.

[BillyMac]

The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not possible....geometry

hmmm...now I'm gonna have to run to school tonight and take my ball and go stand in the corner.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

hmmm...now I'm gonna have to run to school tonight and take my ball and go stand in the corner.

I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...





Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.

1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.

Not diagramed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard.

Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...



Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.

1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.

Not diagrammed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard. Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

Wow. Thanks for the effort. Confucius supposedly said, "One picture is worth a thousand words". If he said it, he was right. Now I understand what you mean.