GPS Play Haven't had one in awhile

[mick]

Originally posted by crew
iref21, bbarnaky, and others,
it is nice to know that thinking about weird plays and disccusing the gray area is fundamental in growth and adaption to change. some people on this board obviously already know everything and know the best way to handle every situation. that is why they have advanced to the highest levels of the game and feel a need to mock or scorn at the simple plays that we discuss without giving solid defense or logic to back their take on the play. as we will be patient and attend camps, and learn, and grow, one day we will be able to criticize and chuckle at the stupid simple plays that other non-senior members post on the board because we have reached the 2343 post mark. and only then will we be the greatest.

We got:

illegal dribble

traveling

nothing

something

Do you have a preferred call?

mick

[Jurassic Referee]

The best answer that I've seen so far is "if you can't explain it,don't call it." I can't explain it,so I got a "no call".I can see the logic on both sides that differ,though.Good question,even though you're never gonna see it.

[BBarnaky]

Good advice from Jurassic. Problem is somebody saw it because thats why it was posted. It actually happened. That might be the best advice is just to stay away and not get involved in a play that is as weird as this one.

[crew]

mick,
i would call an illegal dribble. the player controlled the ball to the floor, which in my opinion is the start of a dribble, and then picked the ball up. the player is legal thus far in my judgement but when he starts his "normal" dribbling motion i would call it an illegal dribble or double dribble.

Section 18. Dribble
Art. 1. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats, pushes or taps the ball to the playing court once or several times.

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

[Richard Ogg]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
-snip- Why would I post a play that is obvious to all? That would be a waste of time. Example: player catches the ball and takes 4 steps towards the basket. What would you call? -snip-

If this were done in the NBA then it is an obvious no-call.    Â* What a dumb question.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by crew
mick,
i would call an illegal dribble. the player controlled the ball to the floor, which in my opinion is the start of a dribble, and then picked the ball up.

But tony, you left out "Note 3" from the dribble definition:

". . .It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once."

If that's not a dribble, then the player can still dribble after "recovering" the ball from the floor. I don't think you can sell this as a double dribble. The note pretty clearly states that it's not the start of a dribble.

Chuck

[Richard Ogg]

I'd call a double-dribble.

I don't buy the "no force" stuff because that suggests A1 can just drop the ball, move and grab it, and repeat all over the court.

I'd explain it by saying that the initial dribble started when A1 initiated contact of an unheld ball with the floor. After A1 again held the ball the initial dribble was ended. Then A1 initiated a second dribble.

I think the play is very similar to recovering a ball while on the floor, setting the ball down, getting up, then picking up the ball ("Walk"). Thus a "walk" could be called, but that seems more difficult to explain.

I'm not convinced this is an "interrupted dribble" because the ball did not inadvertantly escape control by A1. This is an intentional act and unless a defender touches the ball, I think it is still within player control.

I also expect to learn a couple of things on this one....

[mick]

Originally posted by crew
mick,
i would call an illegal dribble. the player controlled the ball to the floor, which in my opinion is the start of a dribble, and then picked the ball up. the player is legal thus far in my judgement but when he starts his "normal" dribbling motion i would call it an illegal dribble or double dribble.

Section 18. Dribble
Art. 1. A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats, pushes or taps the ball to the playing court once or several times.

Art. 4. The dribble ends when:
a. The dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.

Thanks, crew,
Works for me.
mick

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

But tony, you left out "Note 3" from the dribble definition:

". . .It is not a dribble when a player stands still and holds the ball and touches it to the floor once or more than once."

If that's not a dribble, then the player can still dribble after "recovering" the ball from the floor. I don't think you can sell this as a double dribble. The note pretty clearly states that it's not the start of a dribble.

Chuck

Chuck,
When the dribbler touches the ball to the floor, I have always thought the player is not releasing the ball to the floor.
... The player is still holding.
mick

[crew]

Originally posted by mick

Chuck,
When the dribbler touches the ball to the floor, I have always thought the player is not releasing the ball to the floor.
... The player is still holding.
mick

i think the key word in the situation is release.

[tharbert]

I gotta go with a travel for a couple reasons.

As Ogg astutely pointed out, if you have nothing, then A1 could systematically go all the way down the court by placing the ball next to him walking to the other side, picking it up and placing it again and again. This very good point immediately rules out a "no call."

IMO - A1 releases the ball onto the floor then runs around and receives the ball he has released onto the floor. Since A1 cannot pass the ball to himself, I have a travel. Once he releases the ball to the floor anyone but A1 can legally receive his pass.

[mick]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
I'd call a double-dribble.

I don't buy the "no force" stuff because that suggests A1 can just drop the ball, move and grab it, and repeat all over the court.

I'd explain it by saying that the initial dribble started when A1 initiated contact of an unheld ball with the floor. After A1 again held the ball the initial dribble was ended. Then A1 initiated a second dribble.

I think the play is very similar to recovering a ball while on the floor, setting the ball down, getting up, then picking up the ball ("Walk"). Thus a "walk" could be called, but that seems more difficult to explain.

I'm not convinced this is an "interrupted dribble" because the ball did not inadvertantly escape control by A1. This is an intentional act and unless a defender touches the ball, I think it is still within player control.

I also expect to learn a couple of things on this one....

Richard,
I'm with you.
I see the play no different than:

Player, who still has a dribble, releases a ball with a pass over a defender's head, then runs around the defender and catches the ball after it hit the floor, and then starts another dribble.

The only variation we have is the precise movement of the ball.
mick

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by tharbert
I gotta go with a travel for a couple reasons.

As Ogg astutely pointed out, if you have nothing, then A1 could systematically go all the way down the court by placing the ball next to him walking to the other side, picking it up and placing it again and again. This very good point immediately rules out a "no call."

This is not a good argument for declaring something illegal.

IMO - A1 releases the ball onto the floor then runs around and receives the ball he has released onto the floor. Since A1 cannot pass the ball to himself, I have a travel. Once he releases the ball to the floor anyone but A1 can legally receive his pass.

Maybe I don't get what you're saying but it looks to me
like you are describing a dribble. Can't travel during a dribble.

[BktBallRef]

BBarnaky, you can ber offended or you can be challenged. it's up to you. To say that you'd call traveling, a double dribble or "whatever," is just a bit short of offering a true interpretation. It's either nothing, traveling, illegal dribble, or double dribble. But it is not "whatever." If I make an interpretation, it's based upon a rule, not "whatever." This is a play that's not specifically covered by a case book play but when such things occur, we must apply the rules as they exist. We can't just offer "whatever."

Sorry if you were offended. But someone who is in a postion to teach, mold and critique officials, needs to be more confident than "whatever." JMHO

[tharbert]

Dan_Ref - The player is releasing the ball in a way that does not meet the definition of a dribble. Since the player is moving with the ball without dribbling, I have a travel. There is no violation until he picks up the ball. What's the difference between the original question and A1, while standing, tosses the ball in the air, takes two steps, then catches the toss? Either on the floor or in the air, I believe this to be a pass. Mr Ogg's point merely illustrates an outcome of allowing the player put the ball on the floor, move, and recover it without dribbling.

Of course, we have mulled this over for a couple days now. This is better than 20-20 hindsight! If I saw this happen tomorrow, I would probably let it go just from the shock of seeing it happen.