|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 09:34am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Cornellref, I assumed he just receive a pass b/c this wouldn't be much of a question if he had already dribbled. You are correct, there was some important info left out.
__________________
foulbuster 
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 09:36am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Well analyze it both ways.
In this situation however assume he is holding the ball and still has his dribble. He then bends over and places the ball on the floor and walks away. I think there is surely a violation if a player has his dribble and then places it on the floor, walks away, and then comes back retrieves it and dribbles again. Assume here is still has his dribble and is holding the ball in the front court by the midcourt line area, for the "last shot."
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 10:00am
|
|||
|
|||
|
I would say that this is a double dribble... Clarify this for me but wouldn't this be similar to the situation where Offender A (who is in possesion of the ball) rips through the defender to clear himself and while in the process bangs the ball on the floor. After this sequence of events the defender steps back and the offender proceeds to drive to the basket. Tweet... Double Dribble!!
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 10:03am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Similar play happened to me this year except the player set the ball on the floor, wiped his hands off on his shorts, then picked the ball up and passed it. In my situation, no violation. NBA Referee Don Vaden was at my game when it happened and we discussed the scenario after the game. Had the player in my game dribbled, I would have called a double dribble.
In the situation in the original post, there is a violation... illegal dribble.
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 10:17am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Should we distinguish a difference between, a) A1 has both hands on the underside of the ball and lowers his hands to the floor until the ball is resting on the floor and then removing his hands, thus not pushing the ball to the floor. b) both hands on the upper side of the ball and lowering the ball to the floor and then releasing the ball, thus calling this pushing the ball to the floor for the start of a dribble?
__________________
foulbuster
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 11:23am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 11:23am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yes i agree that is the point, the start of the dribble. There is nothing in the rule about not being allow to rest the ball on the floor. I guess if the official determines he pushed to ball vs letting the ball gravitate to the floor then you could have a start of a dribble. Which brings the play of a player diving to the floor grabbing the ball for control, then resting the ball on the floor, then getting up, then grabbing the ball again. What do you call?
__________________
foulbuster
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 11:28am
|
|||
|
|||
|
1- The original post said nothing about dribbling the ball prior to sitting it on the floor. It said he was holding the ball.
2- Sitting the ball on the floor is not a dribble. If it was, it would be legal to gain position while having a knee touching the floor, sit the ball on the floor, rise to one's feet and retireve the ball. We know that's illegal but it is legal to begin a dribble from the same position. That tells us that sitting the ball on the floor is not the beginning of a dribble. Therefore, this is not an illegal or double dribble. As has been said, there's no PC, so there's no travel. No violation.
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 11:31am
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
And, I think that provides the answer to the original question. The only way the case is travelling is if "placing the ball on the floor" (in some sort of controlled manner) is equivalent to "holding the ball." Thus, I'd have a traveling violation in the original case for lifting the pivot foot before the ball was released on a pass or try. (The violation occurs when A touches the ball again.)
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 12:08pm
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 03:22pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
So this play has less to do with difinitions and more to do with the case play of 4.43.5b. Hmmm Is this how you see it?
__________________
foulbuster
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 03:32pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
I see the point of bringing up the case play, but I've always thought of that as being a sort of "exception" that was put in to prevent a player from intentionally circumventing a rule. It seems like they didn't want to change the definition of travelling, but they realized that, as written, the rule allowed a player to weasel out of this situation. So they put in that one sentence.
I personally don't like applying it to the play in the original post. I could be wrong, obviously, but I still have nothing on the original play. Additionally, what does case 4.43.5B have to do with lifting the pivot before releasing on a pass or try? I'm not sure I see the connection Bob seems to be making. And since when is it a violation to lift the pivot before releasing the ball on a pass or try? Obviously, I've missed Bob's real point somehow. Are you equating the original play with the following? "A1 jumps to attempt a try, but seeing that it will be blocked, drops the ball to the floor, where A1 is the first to recover the ball." If so, then at least I see the connection you're trying to make, although I haven't had time to think it all the way through. Chuck [Edited by ChuckElias on Apr 19th, 2002 at 03:37 PM]
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 05:56pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I'm just curious,is it possible to curse at someone without doing it profanely. If so then I hope coaches never find out about it. I think you meant to say "cursing at his players profusely". As to the original sitch, I have nothing based on what play was described. I do recall in the casebook, where you cannot place the ball on the floor to get up and then pick it up once you are standing. This is considered a pass to one's self. And simply touching the ball to the floor is not considered a dribble. Again, if you can't explain it, don't call it.
|
|
Fri Apr 19, 2002, 07:22pm
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yes, I believe it is possible.
Quote:
From a book of curses, I forget the name of the book: "May all of the teeth in your head fall out, except one, so that you may have a toothache." mick
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
|
|
Linear Mode
