Player Down - Rule and Your Philosophy

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Fixed it for ya'.

Senor Quixote strikes again.

[TGR]

With the citation of the NFHS rule by Jurrasic, I will have to agree with BiilyMac (even though it seems unfair).

Just for everyone's information, the NCAA Men's rule does read differently:
Rule 5 Section 10 Art. 7: Suspends play after the ball is dead or controlled by the injured player's team or when the opponents complete a play after a player is injured.
a. A play shall be completed when a team withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position.

Based on this citation, as long as the team continues to try to score, play is not suspended for injury. (Seems much more fair).

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How do you explain ignoring the rule afterward? Or isn't that a consideration?

JR: you've been officiating long enough to know that you don't have to explain everything....it's just common sense.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

JR: you've been officiating long enough to know that you don't have to explain everything....it's just common sense.

Yabut...I've also been answering complaints about officials long enough to know what I can get away with also. And lying is never a part of that explanation.

If your personal "common sense" happens to go directly against a plainly written rule, how then am I, say as your supervisor, going to be able to explain away your "common sense" when I get one of those irate post-game phone calls or e-mails? Do you really think that a league is going to accept an explanation that it was OK for an official to ignore that plainly written rule because he didn't think it was "fair"?

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yabut...I've also been answering complaints about officials long enough to know what I can get away with also. And lying is never a part of that explanation.

If your personal "common sense" happens to go directly against a plainly written rule, how then am I, say as your supervisor, going to be able to explain away your "common sense" when I get one of those irate post-game phone calls or e-mails? Do you really think that a league is going to accept an explanation that it was OK for an official to ignore that plainly written rule because he didn't think it was "fair"?

If the official cannot exercise good judgment, then YOU, as the SUPERVISOR, should not permit that official to officiate a basketball game -PERIOD! Rules are black and white, but officiating isn't. I don't think anyone of us here can truly say they have followed every single rules in the rulebook. Just think of the last time you exercise your personal "common sense" to pass up on a 3-sec violation.

[blindmanwalking]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

BktBallRef: Well said. Rookies take note.

Also, regarding "team control ends", that means as soon as the shot is attempted, the official blows the whistle, while the shot is in the air. If the attempt misses, we go to the arrow, if the attempt is successful, the other team gets the ball, and is allowed to run the endline.

This is the only fair solution. If the offensive team were allowed to continuously attempt shots they would be gaining a huge advantage from the other team's injured player. The way the rule is set up it allows the offense to attempt a shot they probably would have got if no player were injured and does not penalize the defensive team by not having 5 players available to rebound.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by blindmanwalking

This is the only fair solution. If the offensive team were allowed to continuously attempt shots they would be gaining a huge advantage from the other team's injured player. The way the rule is set up it allows the offense to attempt a shot they probably would have got if no player were injured and does not penalize the defensive team by not having 5 players available to rebound.

Depends on the situation: if A team makes no attempt to run back on defense and B1 misses and B2 follows up and score, I'm going to hold my whistle. Again, it is a 2 on none situation. It would not be the same had it been a 5 on 4 situation. If it's a 5-4 situation, once I recognize the team in control isn't attacking the basket, I'll blow the play dead immediately to check on the injured player.

I've seen and witness coaches run out on the floor without being "PROPERLY BECKON" onto the court. Would you guys administer a technical foul to the head coach? What about a parent from the stand to check on his/her son/daughter?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

If the official cannot exercise good judgment, then YOU, as the SUPERVISOR, should not permit that official to officiate a basketball game -PERIOD! Rules are black and white, but officiating isn't. I don't think anyone of us here can truly say they have followed every single rules in the rulebook. Just think of the last time you exercise your personal "common sense" to pass up on a 3-sec violation.

Some officiating IS black and white. From this thread, it is very obvious that there are officials that don't understand that. You are completely right though in saying that I sureashell would hesitate to use that type of official in any meaningful game.

[TGR]

In NFHS Rules, one would have to apply the rule properly, which means that the official would have to blow the play dead as soon as the shot attempt misses.

Trying to beat a dead horse, I believe that the NCAA Men's Rule cited earlier is a better way of handling this situation. Perhaps this will be one of the differences in the rules that NFHS and NCAA will one day place in alignment.

[inigo montoya]

Doesn't the rule say the official MAY blow the play dead when... and then list different options? If you don't think it's fair to blow it dead in a 2-on-none, then choose one of the other options, e.g. the ball is dead.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by TGR

In NFHS Rules the official would have to blow the play dead as soon as the shot attempt misses.

Almost. Team contol ends when the shot is attempted, not when it misses. As soon as the shot is attempted, the official blows the whistle, while the shot is in the air. If the attempt misses, we go to the arrow, if the attempt is successful, the other team gets the ball, and is allowed to run the endline.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

Doesn't the rule say the official MAY blow the play dead when... and then list different options? If you don't think it's fair to blow it dead in a 2-on-none, then choose one of the other options, e.g. the ball is dead.

NOTE: When a player is injured as in Art. 2(a), the official may suspend play after the ball is dead or is in control of the injured player's team or when the opponents complete a play. A play is completed when a team loses control (including throwing for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position. When necessary to protect an injured player, the official may immediately suspend play.

You are correct....it says may, not shall. So, that means the official has a choice. The official may kill the play at any of the listed times.