ASA rule change - injured player

[Dakota]

Also from Spysoftball...

If, in the umpireÂ’s judgment, an injured player requires immediate attention, the umpire shall declare Dead Ball, and allow to seek aid. The umpire will also award bases that would have been reached.

How do you guys think you will deal with this rule?

Call a dead ball on all "injuries?" Actually try to "judge" the ones that require "immediate attention?" How? I'm no doctor!

"...would have been reached..." ?? In what event? No injury? Minor injury with no dead ball? F7 actually makes the catch instead of colliding with F8?

OK - I'm overreacting, but it seems like a can-o-worms to me.

Hopefully when ASA publishes their new book, things will be clarified.

[Andy]

I think this is one of those "you know it when you see it" type situations.

If I have a collision between two outfielders that causes them to knock heads and go down out cold, I'm more concerned at that point with getting the players taken care of than where to place runners.

I think that most people can tell the difference between a serious and minor injury without being a doctor. If in doubt, I have always erred on the side of caution and stopped play. If the oppposing coach gripes, I tell him that I will do the same for his/her players, end of conversation.

Most coaches that I have come across in youth SB in injury situations were more concerned with getting the kid taken care of no matter which team she was on.

Tom, I certainly see your point about the can-o-worms, but this is one of those situations that requires guidelines more that hard and fast rules.

[greymule]

Guy rounds 3B and pulls up lame. Halfway home, he falls to the ground, clutching his hamstring. Call time out?

Without the injury, he would have been safe. But with it, he's a dead duck. Are we supposed to award him home?

Two outfielders collide and lie apparently unconscious on the ground. Do we call time out as the ball scoots away? Do we then say, "I guess that's a triple"? What if another outfielder immediately snags the ball and fires it in?

To me, the play doesn't stop because of an injury, but you do call time at the earliest possible moment. No waiting to see whether somebody makes a late break for the next base. That will rarely be more than a few seconds. In the extraordinary case of someone getting a deep gash or suffering a severe blow to the head, then yes, immediate time out and later do the best you can sorting out the play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Guy rounds 3B and pulls up lame. Halfway home, he falls to the ground, clutching his hamstring. Call time out?

Without the injury, he would have been safe. But with it, he's a dead duck. Are we supposed to award him home?

Nope

Two outfielders collide and lie apparently unconscious on the ground. Do we call time out as the ball scoots away? Do we then say, "I guess that's a triple"? What if another outfielder immediately snags the ball and fires it in?

Play it by ear, if the team continues to play, I will probably not kill the play unless teammates start out onto the field and give me know choice.

To me, the play doesn't stop because of an injury, but you do call time at the earliest possible moment. No waiting to see whether somebody makes a late break for the next base. That will rarely be more than a few seconds. In the extraordinary case of someone getting a deep gash or suffering a severe blow to the head, then yes, immediate time out and later do the best you can sorting out the play.

Yep, that's the way I look at it.

I would suggest that unless you are sure that something is gravely wrong (blood, head, knee and heel all pointing north, etc), you change nothing in the way you've umpired games in the past.

I guarantee you that somewhere along the way this season, someone will start killing plays at the drop of a hat (or the player wearing it). Eventually, the teams will catch on and expect everything to come to a screeching halt every time someone goes "ouch!"

There is no liability involved, unless you are certified in some portion of the world of medicine, as you cannot be expected to make medical judgments.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by greymule
[B]Guy rounds 3B and pulls up lame. Halfway home, he falls to the ground, clutching his hamstring. Call time out?


No, unless he was screaming, then the ball is dead and ask the coach to replace him with a legal sub and place the runner on 3rd.

Without the injury, he would have been safe. But with it, he's a dead duck. Are we supposed to award him home?

No

Two outfielders collide and lie apparently unconscious on the ground. Do we call time out as the ball scoots away? Do we then say, "I guess that's a triple"?

Be careful here, this happened in Lawrenceville, Ga. (metro Atlanta) about 5 years ago, and one of the guys ribs stabbed his heart and he was virtually dead as he hit the ground (true story, Men's B) after a collision between a SS that had gone deep and the LCF.

What if another outfielder immediately snags the ball and fires it in?

Call the play the way it happens.


To me, the play doesn't stop because of an injury, but you do call time at the earliest possible moment. No waiting to see whether somebody makes a late break for the next base. That will rarely be more than a few seconds. In the extraordinary case of someone getting a deep gash or suffering a severe blow to the head, then yes, immediate time out and later do the best you can sorting out the play.


I agree with Andy, if you kill the play and later it is determined it wasn't necessary, remind the complaining party that it is better to be safe than sorry. These are only games folks, not life, not the MLB World Series. We all can use good judgement.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

The way I will call this is the same I have always looked at it............

If further play might put an injured player at risk...........go on ahead and kill it........

If not............keep the ball alive........

JMHO

Joel

[Dakota]

I agree with how many of you have been dealing with injuries. My point was, now that it is a rule, will anything change?

I am uncomfortable with a rule that mandates that I judge the difference between a serious injury and a not serious injury. (overreacting, again, I know)

As it was, the most I had to deal with if I stopped play was making an opposing coach look like an unfeeling, uncaring ogre. Not too difficult!

Now, I may have to deal with a coach making me feel like an unfeeling, uncaring ogre, or even worse, deal with legal problems because "any reasonable person should have known the injury was serious."

Seems to me like the change was unnecessary and has the liklihood of opening a can of worms.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota
I agree with how many of you have been dealing with injuries. My point was, now that it is a rule, will anything change?

I am uncomfortable with a rule that mandates that I judge the difference between a serious injury and a not serious injury. (overreacting, again, I know)

As it was, the most I had to deal with if I stopped play was making an opposing coach look like an unfeeling, uncaring ogre. Not too difficult!

Now, I may have to deal with a coach making me feel like an unfeeling, uncaring ogre, or even worse, deal with legal problems because "any reasonable person should have known the injury was serious."

Seems to me like the change was unnecessary and has the liklihood of opening a can of worms.

What is it with you people and worms, especially in a can?

The change was made so that when there was an injury which was obviously serious enough to demand immediate attention, the umpire has the authority, by rule, to stop play to attend to the injured player. In the past, this was not permitted and it was possible for an umpire who did stop play to lose a protest had that situation come up.

I think there is a question on the other side of the play here. What are you going to do when you kill the play, protect runners to a base and the so-called "seriously injured" player pops right up and walks to the dugout area?

Not so much in youth ball, but I wouldn't be surprised to see this in the adult SP field. Are you going to warn them not to do it again? Would you be willing to eject the player, or the coach who came screaming into the field of play not giving you much of a choice?

I will stay with what I have always done and when I see something I believe is that bad, I will kill the ball. But God help the SOB who fakes an injury in an attempt to avoid an out or protection to a base, 'cause their tail will not be there for very long.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
What is it with you people and worms, especially in a can?

Hey, I'm in MN - you know, the state with hundreds of people sitting around a hole in the ice in the dead of winter. I know about worms in a can! (Not to mention chilled cans on a bucket.)

Anyway, I think you may see some attempts at faking an injury at the AA level, once this rule takes hold.

I am more concerned about the over-protective parent looking enviously at other lawsuit lottery winners.

[whiskers_ump]

Normally if I see blood, I stop it, if not play it by ear.
I agree, you guys/gals doing AA ball may eventually have a
few problems. Don't think many will crop up in JO Fastpitch. JMHO,

glen

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dakota
[B]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA


I am more concerned about the over-protective parent looking enviously at other lawsuit lottery winners.

I don't think that would be a problem since the rule does not REQUIRE the umpire to stop the game and unless you are certified to make such judgments, how can they hold you responsible for making a judgment for which you are not qualified?

I know there are some pretty shifty lawyers out there and some pretty stupid jurors and judges, but I think we'll be okay with this.

JMHO,

[bluezebra]

"Guy rounds 3B and pulls up lame. Halfway home, he falls to the ground, clutching his hamstring. Call time out?

Two outfielders collide and lie apparently unconscious on the ground."

There is a VAST DIFFERENCE between these two types of injuries. A pulled hamstring is not life threatening. Head injuries are.

Bob

[kellerumps]

All this rule does is to give us something to fall back on when a player is seriously hurt. Will we change how we umpire....NO. Will we stop the game when it is not needed because of this rule change....NO. Common Sense will prevail.


Like I said, it just gives us a rule to back up our actions when faced with the "Idiot Coach".