Double Dribble???

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. You keep referring to an inadvertant touch, while I have clearly stated intentional. Accidental contact has nothing to do with this situation, so please stop bringing it up in an attempt to confuse the issue.

Only for the purposes of demonstrating that two touches may not be illegal since there is no distinction regarding intent....if one of the touches is accidental and it is not an illegal dribble, then it can't be illegal if the touch is deliberate.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2. Again rule 4-15 tells you HOW a player may dribble. If the player does not perform the ball movement in that described manner, then he is either dribbling illegally or not dribbling at all. What is listed in rule 9 is only one way that a player may violate. It is true that, and I have argued for this before, another article under 9-5 stating that it is also a violation to perform a dribble in an illegal manner would be wonderful, but since we don't have that we simply follow the play ruling from the case book under 4.15.

Casebook 4.15.4.D is CLEARLY refering to a situation where the ball is batted into the air (case:"bats the ball over the head of an opponent")....it matches perfectly with rule 4-15-2 (rule:"batted into the air"). I don't oppose that but I do oppose extrapolating 4.15.4.D to cover implied cases. 4.15.4.D explicitly sets up the situation as one of batting it up and over the opponent...not a general case of touching the ball twice.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

4. Test case:
How do you rule on this play, let's call it a "double-crossover".
A1 is dribbling with his right hand. As the ball rebounds from the floor to about the height of his waist he pushes the ball down diagonally towards his left knee. The ball is only in contact with his hand for a split second and does not come to rest. The ball moves through the air and comes near the player's left knee and he reaches out with his left hand and bats the ball diagonally downwards so that it strikes the floor near his right foot. During this action the defender B1 moves to his right following the first movement of the ball, but then is too slow to change direction and get back to his left as A1 changes the direction of the ball that way. A1 thus easily goes around B1 while continuing the dribble with his right hand.

No carry/palming and no loss of player control occurred during the entire sequence.

Probably calling nothing since I'd be shocked that a player could successfully pull it off (it would take a true magician to actually make successful use of it) and also that can't justify blowing the whistle without using an inferred ruling from a case that clearly matches an unrelated situation. There is no direct provision of 4-15 that the player has violated.

What you suggest and claim may indeed be true...but the rules don't back you up without a lot of assumption and reading between the lines.