Some help. AUU tourney situation

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by TRef21

like...like...like...like...like...like...like...l ike...like...like

Mark Padgett: I like agree.

Wait. I like made a mistake.

Originally Posted by TRef21

like...like...like...like...like...like...like...l ike...like...

No problem with "(like this tourney)".

[Nevadaref]

I think that you don't display very much professionalism or maturity on the court. You are confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections.

Plus, I seriously hope that your officiating is better than your writing skills because the entire passage reads as if a fifth-grader is telling the story.

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I think that you don't display very much professionalism or maturity on the court. You are confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections.

Plus, I seriously hope that your officiating is better than your writing skills because the entire passage reads as if a fifth-grader is telling the story.

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

Here's your problem. The first T was the warning. The second one gets rid of the problem. If he mouths off from the bench, then indirects accrue to the coach and he will be gone, too.

[JRutledge]

It is really hard to say what should or should not have been done by the story. I will admit that I talk more during any summer or off season league because the consequences of the penalties are not always the same. You are often not dealing with the type of coaches that will control their kids and giving a T in AAU does not automatically solve all problems. I would suggest that you stay away from all the conversation until you know how to control the situation with your words better. At this time it is clear that either you have not grasped that skill completely (sometimes takes years) or you just need to take care of business.

What the assignor did might not have been the best way to handle the situation, but that does not make them not within their right to do so. I agree that it might not be fair, but in AAU assignments a lot of things are not done the same as the regular season. I would either talk to the assignor what happen or just not help them out in the future. You do not have to make that issue public or known; just do not return phone calls or emails. And you cannot be booked when you ordinarily would have been available if the situation bothers you enough.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TRef21

I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

,,,,,no.3 black starts saying things about the call and I was like, " What did you say"

No. 24 responded, ref you don't even no what a chin check is. I was like you know, I'm older than you and know what it is

These two exchanges could certainly be considered confrontational.

[CLH]

T-Dawg,

There's a reason they call you "Tommygun" use it!!! Like I said when you called me, you gave to much rope. Give him #2 and send him to the house. Yeah, some of your comments were a bit confrontational, but hey it happens. Grow from that, and always remember "Silence can't be quoted."

I've found that every time I've tried to be nice and give a player some rope, I end up hanging myself. I've ended up flinging more techs than I would have if I had just given the first one. I don't do that anymore. If its there, I call it. If that makes me a hothead then I'm a hothead.

As for your assignor, unfortunately sometimes its easier just say "I give up" and pull you guys and hope you'll forgive him. Problem is, we alienate our own at that point. It completely undermines your authority and makes you feel about 2 feet tall, but there's really nothing you can do. I ejected a tournament director who had a team playing one time. It took 2 hours to get my money and I haven't worked there since, but I knew I was right.

So, chin up big dawg, this ain't the end of the world. Just be a jerk like me and start flinging techs with no warnings, you'll be fine!!!!

CLH

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by CLH

So, chin up big dawg, this ain't the end of the world. Just be a jerk like me and start flinging techs with no warnings, you'll be fine!!!!

CLH

True. It's not the end of the world. I have too many good things in officiating right now, that this something that I really don't need to fuss about. I'm just looking for ways to handle different situations. I was talking to my D1 buddy today and told him basically everything I posted. He was like you were right in pitching him. This is something that's covered in the book (unsportsmanlike conduct, etc). He said in officiating that's the way it is. You do something wrong you get in trouble, you do something right you still get in trouble. There is no middle ground. In the next few years it's just going to keep getting worse. He just said, in those types of situation just be careful with techs and whatnot, since officiating is changing everyday.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

Tommy,
JAR selected a couple of instances from your story that would serve as examples of you being confrontational towards the players. More generally, as JR mentioned, you engaged in way too much banter with the young men in this game. That kind of back and forth only brings you down to their level. What you want from any verbal communication is not only for them to comply with your instructions, but also for the players to respect you as an authority figure and the job that you are doing for them. Since they don't know you from prior experiences, this has to develop from what they see from you during the game. Part of that is conveyed through your effort, hustle, and the quality of your decisions, but another and rather large component of their opinion of you comes from how you treat them.

In your comment about them not being in the NBA, you directly insulted the players. After that you certainly cannot expect them to react positively to you.
In my statement about your writing skills, I was intentionally insulting as I was attempting to provoke a response from you which I could then use to illustrate my point about how people react when insulted. Amazingly, you elected to reply in a very cordial manner and thusly ruined my planned example. Good for you. Perhaps you are more mature than your recounting of this AAU game led me to believe.

Unfortunately, from reading your post I got the impression that you were almost bragging about putting these players in their place as it seemed to be nearly overflowing with machismo. From your point of view you obviously felt that your interaction with these players was justified when they challenged you. While to an outside observer your behavior would most likely to be judged to have been a part of the problem. I would like you to take a few moments and try to mentally place yourself in the stands watching the interaction that occurred between the players and officials in this contest. What would your thoughts be upon hearing the words exchanged?

It's late and I just finished working an AAU tournament this weeked myself (by coincidence I happened to work the championship game) so I need some rest, but I will try to share what I would have done in your place tomorrow.

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Tommy,
JAR selected a couple of instances from your story that would serve as examples of you being confrontational towards the players. More generally, as JR mentioned, you engaged in way too much banter with the young men in this game. That kind of back and forth only brings you down to their level. What you want from any verbal communication is not only for them to comply with your instructions, but also for the players to respect you as an authority figure and the job that you are doing for them. Since they don't know you from prior experiences, this has to develop from what they see from you during the game. Part of that is conveyed through your effort, hustle, and the quality of your decisions, but another and rather large component of their opinion of you comes from how you treat them.

In your comment about them not being in the NBA, you directly insulted the players. After that you certainly cannot expect them to react positively to you.
In my statement about your writing skills, I was intentionally insulting as I was attempting to provoke a response from you which I could then use to illustrate my point about how people react when insulted. Amazingly, you elected to reply in a very cordial manner and thusly ruined my planned example. Good for you. Perhaps you are more mature than your recounting of this AAU game led me to believe.

Unfortunately, from reading your post I got the impression that you were almost bragging about putting these players in their place as it seemed to be nearly overflowing with machismo. From your point of view you obviously felt that your interaction with these players was justified when they challenged you. While to an outside observer your behavior would most likely to be judged to have been a part of the problem. I would like you to take a few moments and try to mentally place yourself in the stands watching the interaction that occurred between the players and officials in this contest. What would your thoughts be upon hearing the words exchanged?

It's late and I just finished working an AAU tournament this weeked myself (by coincidence I happened to work the championship game) so I need some rest, but I will try to share what I would have done in your place tomorrow.

Good stuff Nevada. I'm off to bed myself. I will certainly sleep on what you said. I never thought about that. I'm looking forward to your feedback. By the way I apologize for screwing up your example.

[ODJ]

Your assignor blew you out because the tourney is worth more (money) to him than you are.

T 'em and toss 'em.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's late and I just finished working an AAU tournament this weeked myself (by coincidence I happened to work the championship game)

Are you sure weren't the friend of this assignor...working TRef21's games?

[Mark Padgett]

The original post reminded me of something I heard in line at the grocery store a few weeks ago. There were two teenage girls ahead of me. One said to the other, "I can't help it. I like, like him."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

You should've ejected him and then you wouldn't have had future problems.

But thank you for my annual reminder why I've stopped working basketball after my season ends in March.