Baseball's version of a BLARGE

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I got you beat on that one...

I once put my hand behind my head and the other hand on my hip....

[mick]

Originally Posted by eyezen

That's is funny !
A friend of mine was umpiring a Southern Cal baseball game in the 70s.
He and one of his partners got a front page for a very similar call.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a common term we use in umpiring about ties. "The tie goes to the umpire." And as you quoted the rule if a runner does not beat the force play or tag play, they are not safe. So they will be out if the umpire is worth their salt. And for the record it does not matter if this takes place at first base or at third, if the runner does not beat a tag or force, they are out.

Peace

Yep. Back when I used to umpire (before I learned about the joys of sports that don't get rained out or go unpredictably long), I was told that umpires get paid to call strikes and outs. If the runner doesn't beat the throw, he's OUT!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I thought the first one to the table won?

So glad that someone is listening.

See my tag line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For the record it does not matter if this takes place at first base or at third, if the runner does not beat a tag or force, they are out.

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If the runner doesn't beat the throw, he's OUT!

JRutledge and Back In The Saddle: Thanks for your posts. Please bear with me. Again, I have no experience with umpiring baseball. According to the wording of the rules I posted, and, for the record, I have no idea whether these rules are NFHS, NCAA, MLB, etc., it seems that the rules differentiate between a base runner, and a batter who becomes a base runner going to first base.

6.05 A batter is out when: After he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.

Here, as it relates to time, the rule states the runner must be tagged before he touches first base. So if they were to happen at the same time, the runner would be safe because the runner was not tagged “before”.

7.08 Any runner is out when: He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

Here it states that the runner must reach the base before the ball, thus a perception of time being a tie, the runner would be out.

Doesn't 6.05 imply that a batter who becomes a runner to first base is safe in the case of a "tie", and, doesn't 7.08 imply that a base runner going to any other base, possibly including a base runner trying to get back to first after a fly ball is caught, is out in the case of a "tie"?

Maybe these rules are wrong, I found them somewhere on the internet, a few years ago, possibly after a misunderstood baseball rules search, or maybe I'm interpreting them wrong? Help? Please.

[mick]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Doesn't 6.05 imply that a batter who becomes a runner to first base is safe in the case of a "tie", and, doesn't 7.08 imply that a base runner going to any other base, possibly including a base runner trying to get back to first after a fly ball is caught, is out in the case of a "tie"?

BillyMac,
The implications are there, but there still ain't no tie in baseball, and thus,
the runner (or batter/runner) never wins one.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mick

The implications are there, but there still ain't no tie in baseball, and thus, the runner (or batter/runner) never wins one.

mick: Thanks for your reply. I found this on the Major League Baseball website:

"Rule 6.05 The batter is out (j) after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base."

As a non umpire, I can read the rule, but I cannot interpret the rule. Please explain to me how a batter can be called out when he, the gender specific wording surprised me at first, reaches first base at the same time that first base is tagged? First base, in this case, is not tagged before he touches the base, as the rule stipulates?

As a veteran basketball official, I realize that interpretations don't always completely match, word for word, with a specific rule. Can you cite an "official" interpretation of this rule to help me understand why a baseball umpire would call this batter out?

[mick]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

mick: Thanks for your reply. I found this on the Major League Baseball website:

"Rule 6.05 The batter is out (j) after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base."

As a non umpire, I can read the rule, but I cannot interpret the rule. Please explain to me how a batter can be called out when he, the gender specific wording surprised me at first, reaches first base at the same time that first base is tagged? First base, in this case, is not tagged before he touches the base, as the rule stipulates?

As a veteran basketball official, I realize that interpretations don't always completely match, word for word, with a specific rule. Can you cite an "official" interpretation of this rule to help me understand why a baseball umpire would call this batter out?

You wrote the "official" interpretation, BillyMac.
Accept the rule as it is written.

If the runner reaches at the same time, then the runner is not before.
If the runner is not before. then the runner is out.
It is what it is.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

the gender specific wording surprised me at first

If and when a female reaches a Major League Baseball team, they may consider removing the gender specific language. However, I'd guess the NBA has gender-specific language, as would the NHL and NFL.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If and when a female reaches a Major League Baseball team, they may consider removing the gender specific language may get considered. However, I'd guess the NBA has gender-specific language, as would the NHL and NFL.

Gender specific wording surprised him? My goodness, political correctness has really infected the world we live in. And I'm the father of a daughter.

[JRutledge]

Billy,

What these guys have told you since you responded to my thread is correct. There are no ties in baseball and the runner cannot be safe on a tie. They have to beat the play or they are out.

Also keep in mind that all that answered your question has been doing baseball for some time. This comes up often with coaches not much different than the many rules myths that happen are discussed in basketball. This is not much different than a shooter cannot get their own rebound or a player cannot be the first to touch a ball after coming from out of bounds. This is a common myth we discuss as baseball umpires and often have to teach newer umpires not to screw up.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If and when a female reaches a Major League Baseball team, they may consider removing the gender specific language. However, I'd guess the NBA has gender-specific language, as would the NHL and NFL.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Gender specific wording surprised him? My goodness, political correctness has really infected the world we live in. And I'm the father of a daughter.

The gender specific writing surprised me because, as only a basketball official, dealing with NFHS rules for the past twenty-seven years, I'm used to he/she, himself/herself, etc. I wonder when the NFHS went to gender neutral wording, or has it been like that all along?

Also, didn't a female baseball player get into some spring training games, I'm not sure if it was major, or minor leagues, several years ago?

[BillyMac]

JRutledge, Back In The Saddle, and mick: Thanks for your expert information. That's the problem, you're the experts, I'm not. You're 100% right. I'm just trying to figure out the wording of the MLB rule. It's not that I'm into spelling and grammar, like other members of this Forum. It's just that this is the way my scientific (I'm a retired science teacher, and presently a chemist), obsessively compulsive (even with medication), mind works.

6.05 A batter is out when: After he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.

7.08 Any runner is out when: He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

If the ball hits the glove at the same time as the foot hits the bag, aren't the outcomes different in 6.05 and 7.08?

Please respond patiently one more time, and if I'm not satisfied, and foolishly try to ask for help again, you're welcome to call me any name in the book, or not in the book. I'm posting as a "fanboy" here and expect to be treated as one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The gender specific writing surprised me because, as only a basketball official, dealing with NFHS rules for the past twenty-seven years, I'm used to he/she, himself/herself, etc. I wonder when the NFHS went to gender neutral wording, or has it been like that all along?

Also, didn't a female baseball player get into some spring training games, I'm not sure if it was major, or minor leagues, several years ago?

The reason you do not seen gender neutral wording is baseball is not a sport that is played by girls at the HS level. Unless a school is a gender specific school, most schools have a softball as well. Baseball is not basketball where both genders play the sport equally. I have never personally seen a girl play baseball at the HS level. So what happens at the Major or Minor League level is really not relevant. Those levels do not have the same purpose.

Peace

[BillyMac]

1908 — Maude Nelson was the starting pitcher for the men’s Cherokee Indian Base Ball Club
1928 — Lizzie Murphy became the first woman to play for a major league team in an exhibition game; she also became the 1st person, of either gender, to play for both the American League and National League in All-Star games
1950s — Toni Stone, Connie Morgan, and Mamie “Peanuts” Johnson played on men’s professional teams in the Negro Leagues
1988 — Julie Croteau played semi-pro baseball for the Fredericksburg Giants of the Virginia Baseball League
1989 — Julie Croteau became the first woman to play collegiate men’s varsity baseball; she did so at St. Mary’s College (NCAA Division III)
1995 — Ila Borders became the first woman to pitch and win a complete collegiate baseball game; Ila also was the first woman to win a collegiate baseball scholarship
1998 — Ila Borders became the first woman to win a men’s pro game while pitching for the Duluth Dukes independent minor league team