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Wed Feb 09, 2000, 01:48am
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Star -
What you have to realize is that most of the refs were former players at some level. They DO UNDERSTAND your side of things. I still play in a men's league (over 50) so that I know what it is like from the player's perspective. Players today are quicker and stronger with more moves....what looks like a travel to a non-player is not....refs know more than you give them credit for... 
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Wed Feb 09, 2000, 10:54am
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Star, I hope you check the answers AND keep checking into this forum. Refs, coaches and players can all make mistakes, we're human too, right? (don't answer that!) I've done games where a coach could called a key time out or something like that. Or a player feels (or has been told) he cost the team game by fouling, missing a shot, or causing a turn over) NOT TRUE, in my opinion. I go by the theory, you can WIN the game at the end but not lose it. These are kids and there was plenty of chances during the game to score the missed lay up, foul shot...not just the ONE at the end. Have fun coach.
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Wed Feb 09, 2000, 05:37pm
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Star has been called alot of things and talked down to. That isn't right. Officials do effect the outcome of the game and some of us don't even realize it. Some officials get where they are politicaly and don't even belong so you have no right to talk about the game like you have it all solved. We've all "dogged" a call in our time but the attitude that we approach this with is very important. We can't act like we are untouchable and never at fault. Everyone has their own opinion but we as officials must examine ourselves and find out if we are where we need to be before we criticize a player. We need to ask ourselves questions like do we know the rules, are we in shape, do we look like we belong on the court, do we look good in uniform, do we know how to manage a game, do we know our primaries..............
Keep your head up Star and keep improving. I hope you don't let all this negativity leave a bad taste in your mouth.
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 10:23am
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KID -
There was so much discussion about this because quite a number of us refs are parents too. Her post begged for responses!! One comment of Star's in particular bothered me: "it wasn't fair for someone NOT on their team to call the game". I wonder what the other team would think of that statement. Star should think before she speaks her mind so openly.
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 11:06am
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Tomegun -
New member I see. Welcome! Where have you refed and how long? Just a little bit of advice --- for a first post I wouldnt talk down to the rest of the refs who take their jobs very seriously. You havent exactly endeared yourself to me.
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 03:54pm
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Jack,
I take my job very seriously. I don't think you have to be a member here for a certain amount of time before you can make comments here. Do you? I don't think you would say that if my name was Hightower or Valentine would you? I've been officiating for 7 years. That does matter. I think I'm a good official with a good grasp of the entire game. That is important too! I do varsity so I think I can bring some credibility to these discussions. One thing I do pride myself on is my ability to understand the game and being a good ref. I'm from the school of thought that a good way to "rack and stack" officials is to get on the floor and get at it. No drinks at the bar or coming over for dinner, just call the game! I do know, however how the world works so the politics will remain. I think if you knew me you probably wouldn't have any problems working a game with me and I wouldn't even try to judge you or your skills from what I know about you over the internet.
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 04:38pm
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Tommy -
I agree with you that (1)there is unfortunately politics involved in getting your patch and (2)judge a ref by their ability and knowledge. I like the way you think. The young lady Star lost all credibility with me when she said she didn't think it fair for someone to ref her game that was not a member of her team. Hope you are having a good season.
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 05:07pm
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Jack, I think you misquoted Star, She said it wasn't fair that someone blow the game that wasn't on her team. She said nothing about the officials being members of the team.
Politics should have nothing to do with getting a patch. It is how you do on your test(s). Getting the varsity games is politics. [This message has been edited by Tim Roden (edited February 10, 2000).]
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Thu Feb 10, 2000, 05:32pm
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Tim,
If you score 100% on your test how does that really measure your ability on the floor? I think you have to know the rules and do good on the test BUT I've seen guys that do well on the test but can't run, can't apply the rules, have terrible judgement and so on and so on. Where do you get this "patch" I'm from a state that doesn't use patches or anything so I guess I don't know about that. The way I approach the politics involved in this "game" is the fact that when you are good enough they will have no choice but to give you games.
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Fri Feb 11, 2000, 01:14am
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Tim -
You could logically infer that from her statement. You cannot ref a varsity game without your patch in New York. You must pass written (43 out of 50 correct) and floor test each year. This usually takes 5 years on average (foor test is tough) but some officials have gotten their patch in 2 years. Others have taken longer thna 5 years (due to politics) and have switched to refing girls varsity where there is less politics. Where do you ref Tim? how about Tomegun?
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Fri Feb 11, 2000, 12:19pm
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Tom,
In my state, a patch means that you have passed a test. Nothing more, nothing less. It means you have a textbook knowledge of the rules and you have some understanding of the mechanics to use on the floor. It says nothing of your judgement, game management and people skills, physical condition or other factors that make for a top notch varsity level official. Varsity officials are chosen from the officials that have a patch. You do have to play the political game to get a varsity game. In otherwords, you got to get an assignor to look at you and evaluate you as to what level of varsity game he can trust you with.
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Sat Feb 12, 2000, 05:06am
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I guess were on the same system. IAABO I presume. Our floor test is much easier than that. Run a few times up and down the floor with kids during a scrimmage and you pass.
P.s. I'm in Colorado [This message has been edited by Tim Roden (edited February 12, 2000).]
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Sat Feb 12, 2000, 07:28am
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I'm from Nevada. We don't wear any patches and we don't have a test on the floor. I think I would like the floor test though. I work hard almost every day trying to sculpt the new NBA body. I don't want shoot up to that level and I know I'm not even close to that. I just think it doesn't hurt your credibility to look like an athlete.
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Sat Feb 12, 2000, 07:29am
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I'm from Nevada. We don't wear any patches and we don't have a test on the floor. I think I would like the floor test though. I work hard almost every day trying to sculpt the new NBA body. I don't want shoot up to that level and I know I'm not even close to that. I just think it doesn't hurt your credibility to look like an athlete.
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