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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 23, 2000, 05:13pm
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I'm sorry if I offend any of you. There are some very good refs out there, but some are just bad. Yesterday I had a basketball game. The refs were horrible! They called traveling on me when I made a basket. I watched the tape over and over again in slow motion and it wasn't traveling. And my friend took and awesome charge and they called bloking on her! She was set and didn't lean into at all! They wouldn't call fouls on the other team when we were shooting and they called a foul on me on a jump ball. And what really screwed us over was that they wouldn't give us a time out in the final seconds when they should have. My coach was so mad and my friend even cried. I tried so hard in that game and it went for nothing because two dumb refs couldn't call a fair game. To you, a game is you go out blow your whistle at times and go home. To us, the players, basketball games are what we look forward to. They are what we practice for 3 hours after school everyday for. And it is not fair for someone to blow a game for us that isn't even on our team. I am not making excuses for my teams mistakes but I think that it is a refs job to call a fair game. Is that too much to ask for?
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2000, 05:55pm
BK BK is offline
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So you are telling us that throughout your entire game the only ones who made any mistakes were the officials? No missed lay-ups, no turn overs, no (legitimate) fouls, no one walked, or double dribbled, or stepped out of bounds and these two morons were total buffoons and had no business out there in the midst of such perfection?

You need to learn really, really fast that officials do not affect the outcome of games. I'm sure that somewhere along the way, officials have cheated, but in general it does not exist. Officials make far fewer mistakes than players do. And, we take our jobs seriously--When I call a bad game, I don't just go home and forget about it--it bothers me. It also makes me better when I learn from my mistakes. REMEMBER THIS FOR AS LONG AS YOU PLAY SPORTS--When you make excuses, you forfeit your ability to improve.
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Old Sun Jan 23, 2000, 06:45pm
KDM KDM is offline
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quote:
Originally posted by star_01 on 01-23-2000 04:13 PM
I'm sorry if I offend any of you. There are some very good refs out there, but some are just bad. Yesterday I had a basketball game. The refs were horrible! They called traveling on me when I made a basket. I watched the tape over and over again in slow motion and it wasn't traveling. And my friend took and awesome charge and they called bloking on her! She was set and didn't lean into at all! They wouldn't call fouls on the other team when we were shooting and they called a foul on me on a jump ball. And what really screwed us over was that they wouldn't give us a time out in the final seconds when they should have. My coach was so mad and my friend even cried. I tried so hard in that game and it went for nothing because two dumb refs couldn't call a fair game. To you, a game is you go out blow your whistle at times and go home. To us, the players, basketball games are what we look forward to. They are what we practice for 3 hours after school everyday for. And it is not fair for someone to blow a game for us that isn't even on our team. I am not making excuses for my teams mistakes but I think that it is a refs job to call a fair game. Is that too much to ask for?


star_01,

I hope most of us will NOT be offended. And we should all agree that there are good refs and bad refs.

In your game, you learned a valuable lesson. It's called LIFE 101. As you experience more and more, you'll find that things will happen to you that is outside of your control. Part of the time it may work against you, and part of the time you may benefit from it. Basketball, while being a participation sport, is also a reflection of life.

Officials, like players and coaches, are not perfect. I bet if you watch the entire tape, you'll see other calls that the officials missed. I'll offer words of wisdom for you and your teammates, "be thankful that you had refs that cared enough about the kids and the game to be there so that you could participate!" I want you to know that we realize that we are going to miss calls. That's part of officiating --- but we do try to be fair. And that's including even the 'bad' refs!

Somewhere down the line, maybe not tomorrow or next week, you will receive the good fortune of somebody's bad judgement. When it happens, accept it honorably, but remember the'hurt' you feel now ---- because somebody else will be in your shoes and they will be feel your 'hurt'!

I can tell you from many years of officiating (and I have worked with people not only from my state, but from outside my state) that I have NEVER worked with anyone that PURPOSELY tried to miss a call. Try to accept it, because you can't change it.

KDM

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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 01:18am
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Star -

In the title of your post you say there is a "need for a change." It made me think that this forum is probably part of a change that's already started.

As a rookie ref, I have to tell you that this forum has been invaluable to me in terms of helping me think about the game correctly (from the officiating standpoint).

It's also encouraging that players (like yourself) and coaches post here with questions and concerns.

There is a need for a change for many. There are definitely bad refs. There are also many, many coaches, players, parents, and commentators who don't fully understand the game or its rules. There are plenty of these people who think that making calls from the sidelines or the seats is a legitimate part of a basketball game.

My only point is that most of the posts I see here come from officials who are working on their games and trying to be the best they can be. Maybe you could politely give this address to the refs in your league.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 02:12am
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quote:
To you, a game is you go out blow your
whistle at times and go home. To us, the players, basketball games are what we look
forward to.


You couldn't be more wrong about this... Most of us look forward to every game, prepare for it physically and mentally, and try our hardest every single game.

As a player, coach, or fan it is impossible to be unbiased. Even when reviewing on videotape. Most non-referees do not even know the most basic of rules (3 seconds, backcourt, etc.). Putting all that aside, it is very possible and even likely that the officials in your game missed some calls. As has been stated, you have no option other than to play on.

As far as officials not affecting the outcome of games, I will have to disagree. We can affect the outcome of games. If we didn't there wouldn't be NCAA and Professional officials getting fined, suspended, etc. for a problem in a game (usually administrative). Weird things can happen that cause us administrative problems that have an affect on the game. We need to acknowledge this and be prepared for it.

My (unsolicited) advice to you on the whole ordeal would be to put it behind you and go out and work even harder the next time. Good advice for use in general life, too!
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 09:40am
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Just another note agreeing with my colleagues. I don't know what level you play at, but recognize that refs have varying degrees of experience just like players do. Even so,every referee I know wants to do his/her best and "get it right." Most know when they've had an "off" night and feel badly, just like a player who's had a bad game. And to most of us, basketball is just as important as you feel it is to you--we want to be perceived as good officials by our peers, and we spend hours studying and trying to improve ourselves. So, time to stop passing out all that blame and feeling sorry for yourself, and time to accept the imperfect nature of humans--whether they are basketball players or referees.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 11:49am
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I agree with all of the above comments.

We have good and bad refs.
We have experienced/non-experienced refs.
We have good nights/bad nights.

We do not just blow our whistle and go home. Most fans/players, and some coaches do not realize what we have to do to become good refs. We must train and study.
Each year to retain our license, we must take a test and attend a rules interp meeting, and every three years (max), we must attend a six-hour camp.

This doesn't include our hours of reading and studing rules book, case books, referee magazine, reviewing game tapes, and attending association meetings. We do all of this because we love basketball and/or high school athletics.

And as someone else said,
"when a ref has a bad game, he/she usually knows it." A good ref learns form it.

If you substitute coach or player for ref, it in the above comment, I think you can also agree (as a coach or player).


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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 12:35pm
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Question

Yes, I know how you feel. I've blown the whistle at the wrong time, made the wrong call. We will try to make it up during the game but we don't always. Your comments about us officials showing up calling the game, then going home is all wrong. Yes, we have jobs outside of officiating, but you have school. We are at the game an hour early, we talk about every conceivible possibility and how we are going to handle it. We read the rule books, case books, mechanics books more than you care to imagine. We call rec games, YMCA games, we attend camps, and we call anything we get our hands on and we watch video tape too. Why? So we can call your game just a little bit better. Are we perfect? No. We blow our whistle too fast to make a phantom travel call. We call block when we should have called charge. We call a hack when the defender was straight up.

Are there bad refs? yes. Just like there are bad teachers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, journalist, basketball players and whatever line of work you wish to pursue. We try to weed them out before they call a varsity game, but it doesn't always happen. You probably won't find too many of them on this board. After all, you don't hang out on this board if you didn't have the desire to learn and improve.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 05:05pm
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Star --

You might be right. The officials at your game may not have done a very good job. But, you can help improve the level of officiating in your area.

How? Become an official yourself -- if not now, then as soon as you are done playing. We'll be glad to help.
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Old Mon Jan 24, 2000, 10:45pm
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Star,

Sorry you had a bad experience! But thats all it was an experience. What grade level do you play? Were the referees (by contract) certified to do High School ball? Did the referees have professional training? You talked about needing changes, perhaps the change's you are looking for start with the administration of the school you attend.

------------------
Don
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 30, 2000, 01:18am
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I personally love to officiate. For me it isn't just going out to 'blow my whistle'. I am very excited the day of officiating, and i actually become a little nervous before tip off, because i care and i want to do a good job. I am not offended by your remarks, but I want you to understand that officials do care and are fair.
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Old Thu Feb 03, 2000, 12:57am
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quote:
Originally posted by star_01 on 01-23-2000 04:13 PM
I'm sorry if I offend any of you. There are some very good refs out there, but some are just bad. Yesterday I had a basketball game. The refs were horrible! They called traveling on me when I made a basket. I watched the tape over and over again in slow motion and it wasn't traveling. And my friend took and awesome charge and they called bloking on her! She was set and didn't lean into at all! They wouldn't call fouls on the other team when we were shooting and they called a foul on me on a jump ball. And what really screwed us over was that they wouldn't give us a time out in the final seconds when they should have. My coach was so mad and my friend even cried. I tried so hard in that game and it went for nothing because two dumb refs couldn't call a fair game. To you, a game is you go out blow your whistle at times and go home. To us, the players, basketball games are what we look forward to. They are what we practice for 3 hours after school everyday for. And it is not fair for someone to blow a game for us that isn't even on our team. I am not making excuses for my teams mistakes but I think that it is a refs job to call a fair game. Is that too much to ask for?


Star
I hope that all of these referees' replies have helped to change your perspective a bit. But perhaps you would prefer a different perspective - that of a coach. I have coached a couple hundred games over many years in several sports, and have had numerous calls go against me. I have also found myself letting out sighs of relief when my center with four fouls gets away with an outrageous hack while blocking a layup. I even pull my players aside and let them know about the violation that they committed that was missed by the referee, so they won't do it again and get it called.

The calls go both ways, even though I always think I lost more than I got (and so does that guy on the other bench). I have seen good refs and bad. I contact my league regarding both (and your coach should do the same), although I observe referees in more than one game before reporting their transgressions. I know that I wouldn't want a single ugly game that one of my teams played or that I coached to cause someone to think my players were all horrible or that i am somehow unfit to coach.

I also do not let a couple of judgement calls affect my asessment of a referee's performance. You need to ask yourself if they were consistent in what they called, in control of the game, allowed play to flow, alert and attentive, in position to make the right calls, aware of game situations, anticipating what players and coaches may do next (e.g., calling timeout when surprised by a press). That is what I look for in measuring how referees are performing, not whether or not I got every call I wanted (I don't think I ever have or ever will!).

My teams have never lost games because of referee calls, although we have had some stinkers at crunch time. I tell my players not to put the game in the hands of the referees, but to win in or lose it themselves. If we establish our game from the beginning and adapt to the flow of the game (including the way it is being called), then we aren't desperately looking for a foul call with 2 seconds to play to bail us out, or wishing we hadn't gotten the phantom hack called on our center as time expired. No, we are up by 10-20 points and cruising on autopilot to victory.

If we play a perfect game, one in which all of our players make the right decisions on and off the ball, on offense and on defense, we can then critique the referees' performance. Won't ever happen.
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Old Thu Feb 03, 2000, 06:08pm
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just as many have pointed out one official's call will not win or lose a game but to say they have no effect on the outcome is not true. If officials had had no part in the game there would not be a need for them but they are. Thier job is to administer the game and help keep it fair for all parties involved. The other thing you see in replies to this post is when officals are critisized some have a tendency to move directly into a defensive "what about you mode" which is unfortuate. The official that cannot admit a mistake or realize thier errors and improve off of them or the the ones who get an "attitude" when questioned about a call are the ones that aggrivate the most and give the population at large a black eye. I know I really dislike working with some guys in my area becasue they have this tendency.
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Old Mon Feb 07, 2000, 12:22am
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Exclamation

I have read each and every one of the responses to this young lady's statements and I agree with every one. I participated in basketball 2 years ago and was on both ends of a poorly officiated game. I coach this year and I have had good refs, bad refs and have benefitted from and been hurt by each. I am also now an official myself and I have called a good game, and I have called a bad game. I believe that if the lady who posted this message has come back to review all of the answers she'll realize that every one had a valid point and maybe realize that she was acting in anger by posting the message in the first place. I hope that it was beneficial to all parties involved that this discussion was started in the first place, and I hope that the officials involved in the "what about you" responses as mentioned realize also that it was an act of anger and that it was unprofessional to try and redirect the blame.
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Old Wed Feb 09, 2000, 01:27am
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I wish you could have been more specific on the game situation. Licensed or non-licensed, we are out there to do a job. We as officials make mistakes every game. We learn each time from these mistakes. I know the resaon I got into officiating was the challenge of it to call the game as well, and as fair as I possibly can! We are the first ones to know if we've had a bad or good game. We are also the first to know when we've blown a call. We are human. The only thing that bothers me about other officials at times is laziness. There is no excuse for that at any level. Granted, we will call the game differently at certain levels, but still put out the effort. I have always said the game is for the players. It's pretty easy to coach on the sidelines or to sit in the stands and yell at players and officials. You are the ones practicing every night and we are the ones taking all the abuse. I agree with many of the other replys, at your first opportunity get your license and help improve the officiating pool.
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