Intentional vs Unsportsmanlike

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You might not be aware of this. But the usage of the term "unsportsmanlike foul" in NF rules across the board in other sports is usually a sign or indicator for non-contact fouls or penalties. And in basketball an unsportsmanlike penalty is a technical foul. So the usage of this term is already in use.

Indeed I said that the term "unsportsmanlike" might not be appropriate; but I'm convinced that "intentional" isn't either.

Ciao

[Jay R]

As someone who has used both NCAA and FIBA rules over the last few years, it seems to me that there no perfect terminology. Yes I have called intentional fouls where the player had no intent (in NCAA rules). Yet I also called unsportsmanlike fouls in FIBA where nothing unsportsmanlike happened.
For example a player in the open court has a clear path to the basket so they foul him to stop the layup; that is no an "unsportsmanlike" act in my book but I call it a unsportsmanlike foul.

Maybe both types should be included? Nah, we've got enough types of fouls as it is.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Jay R

For example a player in the open court has a clear path to the basket so they foul him to stop the layup; that is no an "unsportsmanlike" act in my book but I call it a unsportsmanlike foul.

Just any foul in this situation? I believe that up to now the interpretation is to call a U only if contact is either excessive or not a "basketball play" (a push in the back, for example). If they foul that player on the arm and the contact is not excessive, why should this be a U?

Ciao

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Just any foul in this situation? I believe that up to now the interpretation is to call a U only if contact is either excessive or not a "basketball play" (a push in the back, for example). If they foul that player on the arm and the contact is not excessive, why should this be a U?

Ciao

You're right eg, I kind of rushed that post and omitted to mention a foul where there is no intent to play the ball. In that situation, an unsportsmanlike is called.

[Texas Aggie]

I think the term "intentional" needs to be changed (at least in fed and NCAA), but not to "unsporting" or "unsportsmanlike." I've said this a hundred times on here, but its absolutely stupid to have a term (intentional) that the rules committee says doesn't really mean what the term actually means or is used in ordinary language. To me its like the committee saying, "in our rules, we'll call Saturday Tuesday."

We have "common" fouls; I just wonder if it would be appropriate to call what is now an intentional foul an "uncommon" foul.

[Oz Referee]

First off let me appologise if anyone took any of my comments as American-bashing. I was simply trying to state that society has an impact on basketball (or any other sport).

One of the main reasons that the name of this rule was changed in FIBA was due to the concept of fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock. While this is certinaly an intentional act, it is not an intentional foul (and is now not an unsportsmanlike foul).

While the choice of the name of the foul may not have any legal or otherwise bearing, it does have an impact on perception....


Anyway, gotta go teach a geography class......so forgive me if this thread is poorly phrased

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Oz Referee

First off let me appologise if anyone took any of my comments as American-bashing. I was simply trying to state that society has an impact on basketball (or any other sport).

One of the main reasons that the name of this rule was changed in FIBA was due to the concept of fouling at the end of the game to stop the clock. While this is certinaly an intentional act, it is not an intentional foul (and is now not an unsportsmanlike foul).

While the choice of the name of the foul may not have any legal or otherwise bearing, it does have an impact on perception....


Anyway, gotta go teach a geography class......so forgive me if this thread is poorly phrased

Don't worry about it. Some here are just feeling a little touchy about the whole fall of the American Empire thing.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Indeed I said that the term "unsportsmanlike" might not be appropriate; but I'm convinced that "intentional" isn't either.

Ciao

And we have had that debate here several times. Unless the NF or NCAA decides to change the terminology then it is not going to change.

But that has little or nothing to do with the legal system in any way.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

Here's the solution. Call them "uninsportstentionalike" fouls. There - that should satisfy everyone.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Here's the solution. Call them "uninsportstentionalike" fouls. There - that should satisfy everyone.

Ok; but you'd also need to outline how to penalize a false double uninsportstentionalike.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Ok; but you'd also need to outline how to penalize a false double uninsportstentionalike.

Simple. Toss both coaches then go for pizza. Hey - works for me.