Your thoughts please.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tio

I guess we will disagree then. Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew. This situation should have been managed before the game, not after. Now if the kid chases the crew off the floor, that is a different story.

I'm at work in Denver, and my rule book is at home with my computer, but there is a case play which shows definitively that the NFHS agrees with me on this.

I agree with this, in most cases. For the same reason you want to quickly deal with a coach who constantly yet relatively quietly chirps, "travel, double dribble, that was a foul...." you want to address a whiny player early.

This might just be flagrant, IMO.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm at work in Denver, and my rule book is at home with my computer, but there is a case play which shows definitively that the NFHS agrees with me on this.

I agree with this, in most cases. For the same reason you want to quickly deal with a coach who constantly yet relatively quietly chirps, "travel, double dribble, that was a foul...." you want to address a whiny player early.

This might just be flagrant, IMO.

Does the Fed also advocate an official chasing down a player and issuing an ultimatum?

Originally Posted by Reffing Hoosier

I head straight for him and tell "you want to continue to play this weekend you will need to keep you mouth shut".

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Does the Fed also advocate an official chasing down a player and issuing an ultimatum?

Come on, Juggler. You know me well enough to know that's not what I said. In fact, my original post on this said either give the T or let it go. My only point with Tio was that giving a T here is not the narcissistic move he claimed it was "Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew."

Chasing down the player is the worst move, and the OP seems to have learned that.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

[Junker]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

Couldn't agree with this more. No way am I letting an 8th grader address me in this manner. It has to be dealt with. If you are taking this from an 8th grader, what are you going to take from a high school player?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

Does the official have to eat this one? No, not by any means.

Should the official eat this one? Probably.

Why? Because he did a poor job of managing this problem waiting to happen for the entire game. It doesn't make much sense to start managing properly now that the game is over. JMO

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I think the official has to eat this one. No T and learn from the situation to improve, just as I'm sure that s/he did.

What????

The kid started the who exchange with "You Suck" then walked away. I agree that the officials shouldn't have followed him to have a conversation but if an 8th grader says that to me, it WILL be answered by a whistle and a T...perhaps a flagrant T depending on the circumstances.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Does the official have to eat this one? No, not by any means.

Should the official eat this one? Probably.

Why? Because he did a poor job of managing this problem waiting to happen for the entire game. It doesn't make much sense to start managing properly now that the game is over. JMO

I can't really disagree with this. I can't imagine letting it go that long. I've been known to approach a player and say, "I don't expect you to agree with every call I make, but I do expect you to control yourself." I've done it a handful of times, and it's worked every time.

Now, if I'd done this, and it didn't work, I'd talk to the coach. After that, it might be T time.

If I'd done this, and it did work; and then the player ended up following the 4th quarter horn with "You suck," it's T time also.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I can't really disagree with this. I can't imagine letting it go that long. I've been known to approach a player and say, "I don't expect you to agree with every call I make, but I do expect you to control yourself." I've done it a handful of times, and it's worked every time.

Now, if I'd done this, and it didn't work, I'd talk to the coach. After that, it might be T time.

If I'd done this, and it did work; and then the player ended up following the 4th quarter horn with "You suck," it's T time also.

Yes sir, I totally concur!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Reffing Hoosier

8th Grade All Star Tournament.

The kid turns to me and very plainly yells "you Suck" and then briskly walks away.

My question to you all is: Did i handle this ok?? Should I have just walked away from the kid?? Should i have t'd him up (which would not have hurt his status for future games)??

Any advice would be appreciated.

8th grade? Flagrant "T". It's "lesson time", folks. Btw, it's not only "lesson time" for the player; it's "lesson time" for his coach also. It's part of our job. Unfortunately, it's also true that some officials will always have any one of a million excuses to walk away from a situation like this. Anything to avoid confrontation. They don't help the rest of us that will have to deal with the l'il sh!t down the line.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Come on, Juggler. You know me well enough to know that's not what I said. In fact, my original post on this said either give the T or let it go. My only point with Tio was that giving a T here is not the narcissistic move he claimed it was "Calling a T after the game is over just draws undue attention to an official or crew."

You're right - I stretched things a bit there.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Why does the official have "to eat this one?"

I just don't think that "you suck" is enough to start being consistent with the rule, particularily when it's at the end of the game. He should eat it, rather.

In the OP, the acts of the player were clearly to influence the decision of the officials, but no T was ever issued. It certainly sounds like the player's attitude continued to rise because the official didn't take care of business earlier.

Edit: to deal with nothing during the game and then issue a T at the end sends mixed signals. Yes, the player should not have told the referee that "[he] sucks", but I also believe that the art of officiating comes into play: the player didn't have any chance to adapt to the rulings of the official. He a player kept doing the NBA-step travel before a shot, and was called for it, then s/he could adapt to the judgment of the official.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In the OP, the acts of the player were clearly to influence the decision of the officials, but no T was ever issued. It certainly sounds like the player's attitude continued to rise because the official didn't take care of business earlier.

Or, as it appears to me, the player knew his boundaries during the game. After the game, he felt he had license to say what he wanted. By "eating" this, the official passively tells the player that he was right.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

8th grade? Flagrant "T". It's "lesson time", folks. Btw, it's not only "lesson time" for the player; it's "lesson time" for his coach also. It's part of our job. Unfortunately, it's also true that some officials will always have any one of a million excuses to walk away from a situation like this. Anything to avoid confrontation. They don't help the rest of us that will have to deal with the l'il sh!t down the line.

I'm with JR on this one. Flagrant T even if it's the end of the game. Get it recorded and on the book for this little turd. Even if it has no bearing on the outcome...report it to admin. Whomever said it makes the crew look bad at the end of the game...I couldn't disgree more. Swallowing that crap from a 14 year old at ANY time looks worse.

[Coltdoggs]

I can't really say what I would have done because my emotions are not in it reading it right now....After the game...I'm probably going to ignore it and show know emotion that I heard it and I might talk to his coach afterwards....I think you could have prevented it with some dialogue to him or the coach earlier in the game....

Here is a suggestion...If you feel like you want to pass on the T and you feel like you need to say something to him or him and the coach together....He's an 8th grader...why not use this as a means to simply educate him about the possibilities of what COULD happen.

Sure, he probably doesn't want to listen, but if you are "chasing" him down....Why not just put your arm around him and take bits and pieces of some of the things that have been posted here....

"Son, I undertand you are frustrated with the loss and the calls....do yourself a favor as you move up the ranks of Bball and watch how you address the officials. Comments like that could get you tossed out of a game and could prevent you from playing in future games and I'm sure you don't want to hurt your team/that to happen."

Again, it's 8th grader and if it's AAU I am sure the kid has been told how good he is the past 3 years....

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

....Why not just put your arm around him and take bits and pieces of some of the things that have been posted here....

That's a REALLY BAD idea after an emotional outburst by a 14 year old that isn't your son or daugter.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Or, as it appears to me, the player knew his boundaries during the game. After the game, he felt he had license to say what he wanted. By "eating" this, the official passively tells the player that he was right.

Could be. But we're told, at least in my understanding, to deal with non-compliance when it deals with unsportingness. I think being inconsistent with such is a form of baiting.

PS: it also says that the kid flops at the end of a game. Why wasn't a T issued for this? The player needs some serious coaching about the game of basketball.

Reading about the crap that some officials have to deal with on this forum, I am lucky with the athletes that come my way. I also know that the officiating has improved in my area over the years. I hope that it part of the bigger picture.