Cal/UCLA DD??

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

I didn't see the play in question (other than a tiny ESPN.com playback), but are you referring to the rule that at least 0.3 must run off the clock if the ball is inbounded and tipped OOB?

If so, that only applies in the NBA.

Yes, the rule is only in the NBA but on any touch some time has to run off.
I like 0.3 because it's consistent. Similar to an end of game situation where one team is trying to foul on a throw-in. If you deem the player caught it before the foul, you take off at least 0.4 -- it keeps it consistent. This is one area where the NBA staff is the best in the world -- knowing the clock, and it helps them to have specific language for these situations. I'm not saying anything about any other aspects of NBA officiating.

[socalreff]

[QUOTE=Snaqwells]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Where's your definite knowledge? You can't just pull a number out of your a$$, no matter how accurate you think your a$$ may be.

But my butt is very accurate!!!
You can catch and shoot with 0.4 or more and you can tap with 0.3 or less....as a barometer or measuring stick.
Question -- If the ball is inbounded and touched before going out, and no time goes off, are you gonna leave it or take time off?

[Adam]

My point has nothing to do with whether your approach makes sense. My point is you cannot do what you're suggesting, by rule. If the NFHS wants it (and the NCAA), then they should add it. Lord knows they've had time to do it if they want. They haven't.
To answer your question. I'd leave it on, because there's no rule that allows me to take any time off there.

Now, I'll address whether it makes sense (aside from the rules.)
It doesn't. The time it takes to catch and shoot has nothing to do with the time it takes a punched ball to travel out of bounds. They're two completely different acts.

Now, to the

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Question -- If the ball is inbounded and touched before going out, and no time goes off, are you gonna leave it or take time off?

If you start a count on the touch and reach one or more whole seconds, you can take the appropriate number of seconds off, otherwise you leave it alone.

[Mark Dexter]

[QUOTE=socalreff]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Question -- If the ball is inbounded and touched before going out, and no time goes off, are you gonna leave it or take time off?

Clock stays where it is.

I prefer the NBA rule, but at the NCAA/NFHS level, you have NO rule support whatsoever for doing that. Unless you have definitive knowledge of the time involved, it's a timer's error that you can't correct. If you're working NCAA, you may be able to go to the monitor with a stopwatch, but even that won't be 100% accurate.

[socalreff]

[QUOTE=Mark Dexter]

Originally Posted by socalreff

Clock stays where it is.

I prefer the NBA rule, but at the NCAA/NFHS level, you have NO rule support whatsoever for doing that. Unless you have definitive knowledge of the time involved, it's a timer's error that you can't correct. If you're working NCAA, you may be able to go to the monitor with a stopwatch, but even that won't be 100% accurate.

Of course I have support in the book:
c. Timing.
2. Determine whether a timing mistake has occurred in either starting
or stopping the game clock. Determination is based on the judgment
of the official. Such a mistake shall be corrected during the first
dead ball or during the next live ball but before the ball is touched
inbounds or out of bounds by a player. When the clock should have
been continuously running, the mistake shall be corrected before the
second live ball is touched inbounds or out of bounds by a player.
No timing mistake correction shall be carried over from one half or
extra period to another. Such a mistake shall be corrected before the
start of intermission.

It says nothing about DEFINITE KNOWLEDGE like people keep trying to use high school language. It is a JUDGMENT CALL!!! This language was specifically put in (heard directly from Struckoff and Nichols) to allow the officials to do the right thing.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought she was talking about the cheerleaders.

WonderBra White 38 DD Cup

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=socalreff]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Of course I have support in the book:

It says nothing about DEFINITE KNOWLEDGE like people keep trying to use high school language. It is a JUDGMENT CALL!!! This language was specifically put in (heard directly from Struckoff and Nichols) to allow the officials to do the right thing.

Methinks that you need to borrow an NCAA rule book from somebody and do a little reading..

See NCAA rule 5-11-1--"When a timing mistake has occurred because of the failure to start or stop the clock properly, the mistake shall be corrected ONLY when the referee has DEFINITE INFORMATION relative to the time involved."

Rule 5-11-4 also says "definite information relative to the mistake...".

The FED and NCAA rules are basically the same except for the monitor being allowed to gain definite information under NCAA rules.

[SMEngmann]

Originally Posted by socalreff

I saw the replay from 2 angles. They got it wrong. Either 1.2 with fist violation or 0.1 at the most when it touched out of bounds. The reason for time coming off with the violation is because the clock starts on a touch, not a legal touch. Don't confuse it with the throw-in ending rule.
The reason the NBA does 0.3 in these situations is to be consistent across the board and 0.4 or more you can catch. You could take off .1 or .2 if you'd like.

NCAA Rule 5-9-4:

"When play is resumed by throw in, the game clock and the shot clock shall be started when the ball is legally touched by or touches a player on the playing court."

If the officials ruled that the ball was fisted, replays showed that the fist was the initial touch, which was a violation, so the clock would stay 1.5 since there was no legal touch. If the clock were to start on any touch, there would be no need to stipulate "legally" in the book.

I do agree with you that 0.7 sideline inbound doesn't make sense given the info that we have.

[Mark Dexter]

[QUOTE=socalreff]

Originally Posted by Mark Dexter

Of course I have support in the book:

As Jurassic has pointed out, you're reading the wrong section of the rulebook. The official judges whether or not a timing error has occurred. Once he/she judges that an error has occurred, he/she needs "definite information" (whether from a count, the table crew, partners, the TV feed) as to how to correct that error.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

NCAA Rule 5-9-4:

"When play is resumed by throw in, the game clock and the shot clock shall be started when the ball is legally touched by or touches a player on the playing court."

If the officials ruled that the ball was fisted, replays showed that the fist was the initial touch, which was a violation, so the clock would stay 1.5 since there was no legal touch. If the clock were to start on any touch, there would be no need to stipulate "legally" in the book.

I do agree with you that 0.7 sideline inbound doesn't make sense given the info that we have.

They should add this play to the case book as there are multiple times a year the first touch is illegal, usually a kick.