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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 07:00pm
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The official book is at the table. Coach was acting on info. given to him from the "official book". I know the rule but it seems a rather harsh punishment for a mistake that occurred because table screwed up. How do you know the scorer wasn't cheating? Isn't there a way to fix this? I don't understand the reluctance on telling both teams how many time outs they have in a tight game. I want to prevent this from happening.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 07:13pm
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2-11-6...tells us exactly what is supposed to be done.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 07:24pm
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Preventive officiating

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTheRef
I'm assuming he's asking during a deadball. Regardless, if he asks me, I'm going to answer him with "I DON'T KNOW COACH". That's what he has a scorer, as well as assistant coaches to keep up with that stuff. If he asks you how many fouls does his player have, are you going to check the book for that as well, and tell him?

The officials in our area as a matter of course, always ask the scorer how many time outs a team has as we near the end of a game, then relay it to the coach. I always let a coach know when he/she only has one time out, sometimes even if they have 2 left in a close game. I view this as preventive action.

Are you suggesting we NEVER tell a coach how many time out he has?

I agree the OP was handled correctly given the facts presented, but it does make one wonder.

wyo96
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 07:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
The official book is at the table. Coach was acting on info. given to him from the "official book". I know the rule but it seems a rather harsh punishment for a mistake that occurred because table screwed up. How do you know the scorer wasn't cheating? Isn't there a way to fix this? I don't understand the reluctance on telling both teams how many time outs they have in a tight game. I want to prevent this from happening.
gordon30307,
I don't see it as a reluctance. I see it as, "If I didn't know how many you have left, it ain't my problem." and "I only know if you are out of 'em."
Personally, I like to know.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 08:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon30307
Isn't there a way to fix this?
No.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 08:11pm
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Who Is Allowed ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
The assistant is allowed to go to the table ?
Also, is the head coach, or any coach, allowed to come to the table to check timeouts, personal fouls, team fouls, etc.? I thought that they were only allowed to come to the table for correctable errors, scoring mistakes, timing mistakes, and alternating possession arrow mistakes?

Help??
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 08:20pm
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If they want to send an assistant or manager to the table during a timeout, I'm okay with that. Aside from that, they will have at least one person at the table with a book that they know and trust. Usually, they can do this whole process silently by reading lips.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 08:51pm
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to borrow from our friend Will

There is something wrong in the state of....

I dont think this wa Denmark though.. State of Confusion, State of Intoxication, ???

How can a scorer tell somone there is two left and have it be actually 0? I assume the scoreboard did not have the TOL lights? but still... I would query hard and long here to find the potential mistake...

So we have a good idea of what's going on in the game I will ask... Most of the time I have a good idea of how many timeouts have been used, so I reverify...

Just something fishy...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 10:07pm
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text of rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
2-11-6...tells us exactly what is supposed to be done.

Art. 6... Record the time-out information charged to each team (who and when) and notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac
Also, is the head coach, or any coach, allowed to come to the table to check timeouts, personal fouls, team fouls, etc.? I thought that they were only allowed to come to the table for correctable errors, scoring mistakes, timing mistakes, and alternating possession arrow mistakes?

Help??
10.5.1 SITUATION C: The coach of Team A leaves the bench area and goes to the table to seek information other than a correctable error: (a) during a time-out; or (b) during the intermission between the first and second quarters. RULING: A technical foul is charged directly to the coach in both (a) and (b). If this information is required, it must be secured by a manager or statistician, etc., when the clock is stopped and the ball is dead. A coach is not permitted at the table for this purpose. To allow exceptions would open the door for exploitation and would result in situations which could not be enforced consistently.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 11:34pm
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TonyT,
I have two questions for you-
A.Can you tell me whether the scorekeeper was an adult or student manager?
B.Did the scorekeeper attempt at any point to inform the floor officials of timeouts remaining?

I would also propose that the NF add a mechanic which requires official scorers to count down referees on # remaining after each timeout is called. We are required to signal time-outs called in volleyball and this situation has only happened to me once in three years of VB and never in five years of Basketball.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 28, 2008, 11:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo96
The officials in our area as a matter of course, always ask the scorer how many time outs a team has as we near the end of a game, then relay it to the coach. I always let a coach know when he/she only has one time out, sometimes even if they have 2 left in a close game. I view this as preventive action.

Are you suggesting we NEVER tell a coach how many time out he has?

I agree the OP was handled correctly given the facts presented, but it does make one wonder.

wyo96
wyo.. I'm not suggesting that at all, as a matter of fact I do the same. I'm saying if the coach asks me how many time outs he has, I would reply as i said I would and that is "Coach, I don't know".
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 29, 2008, 12:00am
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Thanks for all of the replies

The official scorer was a adult (this was a sectional tourney game) I don't know how he messed this up and gave the ref the wrong info. I kept the scorebook for years and towards the end of a close game during a time out I have had refs come over to the table and ask how many time outs each team has left and then go tell each coach (I think this is good preventative officiating) You also communicate with the other book to make sure you are on the same page (this apparently wasn't done) I have a feeling this wasn't done until the last time out was called and then they discovered the error. There was so much that could of been done to prevent this from happening From coaches and score keepers) It is to bad the refs were put in this position, of course the crowd was all over them and this wasn't their fault, they were given the wrong information. Also when a team is out of time outs you make sure the refs know so they can tell the coaches and then if they call time out it is their fault. I really enjoy reading this board it is amazing all of the things that can happen during a game and I like reading all of the comments everyone has and alot of times it has happened in one of their games.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 29, 2008, 12:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo96
The officials in our area as a matter of course, always ask the scorer how many time outs a team has as we near the end of a game, then relay it to the coach. I always let a coach know when he/she only has one time out, sometimes even if they have 2 left in a close game. I view this as preventive action.

Are you suggesting we NEVER tell a coach how many time out he has?

I agree the OP was handled correctly given the facts presented, but it does make one wonder.

wyo96
For the record, this is NOT the proper procedure.

I wonder if refs who do the above also tell a coach how many fouls his best player has.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 29, 2008, 12:55am
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Not our responsibility...

to tell the coach how many time outs he/she has left till that amount reaches ZERO. This situation is the exact reason why it isn't our responsibility. I don't care how many they have left till it is zero.
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