Halftime adjustments?

[bellnier]

...one real difference between calling rugby and BB, then, is that when you see an infraction/foul you blow the play dead more often than not, while we won't stop play if the offended team can take advantage of the infraction...only if they fail to do so, by failing to gain yardage or complete their play (and this is where the referee's subjectivity comes into effect), do we blow the whistle. This is the case for all but a very few violations of rugby law.

What sometimes confuses me about BB officiating is the consistent application of advantage-disadvantage. In soem games I see things like hand checks with no displacement and (to my eyes) no change in advantage being called. I see this and think "Huh? that wasn't much..." and wonder why it was called in this game and not in another (this isn't a criticism by any means...)...this is admittedly maybe my bias because law violations in rugby are more black and white.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bellnier

What sometimes confuses me about BB officiating is the consistent application of advantage-disadvantage. In soem games I see things like hand checks with no displacement and (to my eyes) no change in advantage being called. I see this and think "Huh? that wasn't much..." and wonder why it was called in this game and not in another (this isn't a criticism by any means...)...this is admittedly maybe my bias because law violations in rugby are more black and white.

The hand checking foul is not just about displacement. Hand checking is a foul when there is control, directing, stopping and displacement involved. So based on your understanding that is why you are confused. You did not know all the aspects of the rule.

Peace

[Junker]

Back to the OP, I'm not one for adjusting at half-time. When I'm the R and when I'm with my regular crew, we talk about calling our game and it is the players' job to adjust.

[bellnier]

...you're right about the great unwashed (most casual fans of the game, 99.9% of parents in the stands, and unfortunately many of the players) not knowing the intracacies of BB rules (I hardly ever see you folks calling 'over-the-back' and 'reach-in' fouls what's up with that?). BTW, we're really drifting away from the OP, but I appreciate this conversation. Just yesterday I met with HS BV and GV coaches and suggested to them that at the beginning of next preseason they wrangle a BB official to give a chalk-talk of the rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bellnier

Just yesterday I met with HS BV and GV coaches and suggested to them that at the beginning of next preseason they wrangle a BB official to give a chalk-talk of the rules.

During several scrimmages that I have worked over the years in basketball and my other sports, that is a common thing we do.

I see it much more helpful in football because there are some real myths out there that are harder to explain.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bellnier

...one real difference between calling rugby and BB, then, is that when you see an infraction/foul you blow the play dead more often than not, while we won't stop play if the offended team can take advantage of the infraction...only if they fail to do so, by failing to gain yardage or complete their play (and this is where the referee's subjectivity comes into effect), do we blow the whistle. This is the case for all but a very few violations of rugby law.

Jeff already addressed that but I don't think that you really understood his explanation. Yes, when we see a foul/violation, we blow the play dead. The judgment lies in deciding first whether it actually was a foul or a violation. What might be a foul in a spectator's eyes is not necessarily a foul in the calling official's eyes. We generally use advantage/disadvantage on fouls only, but that statement isn't all-encompassing either.

If we decide that it is a foul or violation, we call it immediately. If we decide it isn't, we naturally don't call anything.

[bellnier]

JR...I understood the earlier explanation. The difference is that when we see a clear violation (with some exceptions) we DON'T call it immediately...rather, we wait to see if the offended team can 'do something with it' and if they fail, THEN we blow the whistle. For example, in BB I sometimes see a player make a FG but because of a foul that occurs slightly before the shooting motion begins the whistle blows, the basket is negated, and the player is awarded FT attempts. In rugby, the whistle would be delayed and if the basket is made...play on...if the shot is missed...stop the play.

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Usually the reason for the flow becoming better isn't the officials changing anything. It's the officials being consistent and the players adjusting to their consistency.

good point

and also the coach may get a look at the stat sheet and see how many fouls his players have and use the halftime speech to make a point to tell his kids to stop fouling

sometimes teams just come out guns blazing in the first half and merely settle down in the second half

I often think the reffs get too much blame and too much credit

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff's signature

Coach, that's not my call.

Whose call is it? The popcorn guys'?

[Cajun Reff]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Whose call is it? The popcorn guys'?

the quote is from my coaching days and seeing 2-man crews all the time

I loved to ask the officials what they saw there and I loved it when they said "coach that's not my call"

I would always reply "next time it happens can it be my call? cause I will make it"

now that I am on the other side with a whistle, I have made a personal vow to never utter that statement to a coach. I prefer to rely on "coach, I didnt see it, but I'll keep a look out for next time"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

the quote is from my coaching days and seeing 2-man crews all the time

I loved to ask the officials what they saw there and I loved it when they said "coach that's not my call"

I would always reply "next time it happens can it be my call? cause I will make it"

now that I am on the other side with a whistle, I have made a personal vow to never utter that statement to a coach. I prefer to rely on "coach, I didnt see it, but I'll keep a look out for next time"

I agree that an official should not say that, but in reality, all officials are not watching the same things. And coaches tend to ask the officials that question is least likely to see a play the question about the play.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cajun Reff

the quote is from my coaching days and seeing 2-man crews all the time

I loved to ask the officials what they saw there and I loved it when they said "coach that's not my call"

Coach, I had the same crappy angle you did, so I was watching off-ball.

[bellnier]

I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I find it odd (not necessarily 'bad') that so many of you don't make adjustments during the game at at half time with your partner(s). In rugby, the level of play, level of control, level of athleticism, etc. can be vastly different from age-to-age, boys games-vs-girls games, new team-vs-experienced team, etc. Sometimes I might begin a game refereeing at the 'wrong level', requiring me to make some adjustments upwards or downwards. Reading this, you BB folks might rightly respond to this by saying 'then the kids don't know what to expect'...but this is mitigated by the fact that a good (IMO) rugby ref always informs players, even at the pro level, of impending infractions...you'll often hear a ref saying things like '...your coming in offsides #11...' or '...hands out of the ruck #4...'. Is this kind of preemptive talk practiced in BB? some of you do and some don't? Bad idea?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The hand checking foul is not just about displacement. Hand checking is a foul when there is control, directing, stopping and displacement involved. So based on your understanding that is why you are confused. You did not know all the aspects of the rule.

This is part of my pregame that I use with rookie officials:

Ball-Handler / Hand-Checking
Two hands on the ball-handler is a foul. Automatic.
One hand that stays on the dribbler is a foul.
Remember RSBQ. If the dribbler’s Rythym, Speed, Balance, or Quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by bellnier

I'm trying not to be judgmental, but I find it odd (not necessarily 'bad') that so many of you don't make adjustments during the game at at half time with your partner(s). In rugby, the level of play, level of control, level of athleticism, etc. can be vastly different from age-to-age, boys games-vs-girls games, new team-vs-experienced team, etc. Sometimes I might begin a game refereeing at the 'wrong level', requiring me to make some adjustments upwards or downwards. Reading this, you BB folks might rightly respond to this by saying 'then the kids don't know what to expect'...but this is mitigated by the fact that a good (IMO) rugby ref always informs players, even at the pro level, of impending infractions...you'll often hear a ref saying things like '...your coming in offsides #11...' or '...hands out of the ruck #4...'. Is this kind of preemptive talk practiced in BB? some of you do and some don't? Bad idea?

You'll hear stuff like that a lot in my games: "Out of the key" or "Straight up" or "Hands off." But you probably won't hear it all game. Either they'll react to my warnings and clean it up, or I'll just penalize the infraction and they'll be forced to adjust.

Rarely will I make major adjustments at halftime. I start the game with a basic game plan and an attitude of letting the game come to me. Any necessary adjustments are usually made within the first few minutes of play. After that, my goal is to keep it consistent right on through to the end of the game.

My basic game plan has been refined over the years to incorporate the many hard-learned lessons of the "if we had done such-and-such earlier, this wouldn't have happened" variety. That usually precludes the need to make major changes at halftime.