What's your call - player entering without being beckoned?

[dkmz17]

Similar question - An Official is about to provide the ball to A1 for a throw in or for a free throw that, if missed will become a live ball, and he or she sees a player on the sideline for Team A or B get up, and while talking to the coach start to edge towards the table to report. Should the official hold the ball until the player reports and then allow the player to enter the game or should the official ignore what is going on at the bench? I see this quite a lot, and have even had officials provide the ball to the player for a throw in and then grab it back when they see a player heading to the table.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Similar question - An Official is about to provide the ball to A1 for a throw in or for a free throw that, if missed will become a live ball, and he or she sees a player on the sideline for Team A or B get up, and while talking to the coach start to edge towards the table to report. Should the official hold the ball until the player reports and then allow the player to enter the game or should the official ignore what is going on at the bench? I see this quite a lot, and have even had officials provide the ball to the player for a throw in and then grab it back when they see a player heading to the table.

Yep, this is why you should wait until the player(s) reaches that X that is in front of the scorers table.

During the conference with player(s) coach(s) and table personnel, as a game managment tool one should inform them that NO SUBS will be allowed unless they are on the THE X SPOT.

Officials have totally disregarded the X on the floor.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yep, this is why you should wait until the player(s) reaches that X that is in front of the scorers table.

During the conference with player(s) coach(s) and table personnel, as a game managment tool one should inform them that NO SUBS will be allowed unless they are on the THE X SPOT.

Officials have totally disregarded the X on the floor.

So you are saying essentially ignore what is going on at the bench area and provide the ball for play unless a substitute is at the X , correct?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

So you are saying essentially ignore what is going on at the bench area and provide the ball for play unless a substitute is at the X , correct?

Correct, don't anticipate sub(s) keep the game moving.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Correct, don't anticipate sub(s) keep the game moving.

I'm just the opposite. If I have a sub even approaching the table, I'll hold for a second or give a whistle beckoning. What is the damned hurry, anyway?

And no, nobody abuses this, it happens once in a while. I'd rather err in this direction than potentially miss one that has gotten to the X.

[just another ref]

This is something I include in the pregame conference every night:

"Coaches, to get in the game, your subs must report to the X. We will work with you if we see your player on his way, but even if you obviously have our attention, he must still touch the X and wait to be beckoned. The horn is not a green light."

Having said all this, this is a call that many officials here simply will not make. I have seen some do everything but tackle the player at the free throw line and drag him back to the X.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm just the opposite. If I have a sub even approaching the table, I'll hold for a second or give a whistle beckoning. What is the damned hurry, anyway?

And no, nobody abuses this, it happens once in a while. I'd rather err in this direction than potentially miss one that has gotten to the X.

Agreed, but I'll only do this once or twice a game. Once it starts to be a problem, I quit doing it. It only takes one missed sub for them to get in gear.

Most of the time, the coach doesn't care anyway, or he realizes as he's sending the sub that it'll probably have to wait.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, but I'll only do this once or twice a game. Once it starts to be a problem, I quit doing it. It only takes one missed sub for them to get in gear.

Most of the time, the coach doesn't care anyway, or he realizes as he's sending the sub that it'll probably have to wait.

I've run into scorers who hate that I'll whistle/beckon the sub in before he "reports" (who've actually called me over about it) but I really don't care about that. I've told scorers that when I whistle, they're in. End of story.

[dkmz17]

Finally - when a timeout is over (the second horn has sounded) or a violation has occurred and the team in control of the inbound is ready to put the ball in play, why do officials wait, especially in HS Varsity ball, for the defensive team to set up a defense for the inbounds play or a press, etc, especially while the coach calls out instructions to his players?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Finally - when a timeout is over (the second horn has sounded) or a violation has occurred and the team in control of the inbound is ready to put the ball in play, why do officials wait, especially in HS Varsity ball, for the defensive team to set up a defense for the inbounds play or a press, etc, especially while the coach calls out instructions to his players?

That is another one of those managment tools you inform them of when you have the initial conference. We are playing on the second horn. Normally most are receptive to it. You have to keep in mind coaches; player are going to get away with as much as you allow them too.

So, if an official do what you stated that's an individual thing.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Finally - when a timeout is over (the second horn has sounded) or a violation has occurred and the team in control of the inbound is ready to put the ball in play, why do officials wait, especially in HS Varsity ball, for the defensive team to set up a defense for the inbounds play or a press, etc, especially while the coach calls out instructions to his players?

It seems you're suggesting we put the ball in play as soon as one team is ready to go. Do you also suggest we place the ball on the floor the moment the defense is ready but the offense is not? One doesn't make sense without the other.

Just because one team happens to be in a position to resume play doesn't mean the other team will be or could/should be. One of the players may be OOB from a failed effort to save an errant pass. Each team shoud have a very reasonable chance to get all players in desired positions. The advantage awarded the throwing team is merely a throwin...not a throwin without the other team being ready to defend it. Giving a teams an advantage on a throwin by being "quick" to get the ball in play is not something we should be doing....it will only lead to frustration (and probably a few T's) and a short career...there is no good that can come of it. We should be managing a game and ensuring "fair" opportunities to both teams.

[dkmz17]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It seems you're suggesting we put the ball in play as soon as one team is ready to go. Do you also suggest we place the ball on the floor the moment the defense is ready but the offense is not? One doesn't make sense without the other.

Just because one team happens to be in a position to resume play doesn't mean the other team will be or could/should be. One of the players may be OOB from a failed effort to save an errant pass. Each team shoud have a very reasonable chance to get all players in desired positions. The advantage awarded the throwing team is merely a throwin...not a throwin without the other team being ready to defend it. Giving a teams an advantage on a throwin by being "quick" to get the ball in play is not something we should be doing....it will only lead to frustration (and probably a few T's) and a short career...there is no good that can come of it. We should be managing a game and ensuring "fair" opportunities to both teams.

I am not saying that we should punish one team just because another team is ready to go. That said, I don't think we should allow a team "extra" time to set up their defense or make adjustments when all five for both teams have been on the floor for enough time that they could and should be ready to play.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Yep, this is why you should wait until the player(s) reaches that X that is in front of the scorers table.

During the conference with player(s) coach(s) and table personnel, as a game managment tool one should inform them that NO SUBS will be allowed unless they are on the THE X SPOT.

Officials have totally disregarded the X on the floor.

Good luck finding that in must low-level games. Although I make it point to bring tape with me and put one down each home game if necessary. Of course, visiting teams seem to think the X means "stay as far away possible from this spot if you want to check in", even with gentle reminders

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by dkmz17

Similar question - An Official is about to provide the ball to A1 for a throw in or for a free throw that, if missed will become a live ball, and he or she sees a player on the sideline for Team A or B get up, and while talking to the coach start to edge towards the table to report. Should the official hold the ball until the player reports and then allow the player to enter the game or should the official ignore what is going on at the bench? I see this quite a lot, and have even had officials provide the ball to the player for a throw in and then grab it back when they see a player heading to the table.

Don't wait. Rule says substitutes shall be at the table waiting to enter...not walking towards the table. Might give a little leniency with the younger kids, but no tolerance at the high school level. If I'm in a good mood I might give the coach a freebie but say, "Coach, next time they have to be at the table before I wave them in." And usually that's good enough. Otherwise, they'll do it all night long.