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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:27pm
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Last night we had a strange situation that I'd like to prevent in the future, but I am not sure how we can.

23 seconds left in the game. The score is A-41 B-34. B is the VISITING team. Boys JV game (2 officials). A1 is fouled and goes to the line for 2 shots (double bonus). I am the trail and I see 2 players for A go to the table to substitute after the first free throw. Free throw goes in, table sounds the horn and I beckon the players onto the court. I step forward (towards the foul line) and raise my hand to make sure we don't administer the ball to the shooter until the substituted players are off the court. I then return to my spot for the second shot.

At this point, the scorer hits the buzzer and motions me over to the table. I get there and he says, "Number 40 never checked into the game." I asked him about the other substitute and he said he DID check in. The home coach hears this going on and says it's a technical foul. My partner comes over and I explain the situation to him. We agree that it's a techical foul (although we both feel it's a cheap shot by the HOME scorekeeper to try and steal some points). I explained the situation to the visiting coach and he was not happy at all. He then asked his player if he checked in and he said he did not. I should say that there is a large X on the floor in front of the official scorer.

B made both free throws and scored (after inbounding the ball). In the end, A won the game by 5 points.

After the game, I discussed the situation with the varsity officials. They asked if I could have motioned A #40 back off the court to report in. I told them I had no knowledge that he did NOT report when I waved him onto the court. When I see a player rush into the game and just sort of "wave" at the scorer, I'll tell them to go back and report (or often, the scorer will wave and say they got the player checked in).

Should I ask players if they are properly checked in? What's to say an official scorer could say a player didn't check in when in fact they DID check in (not likely, I know)? I still feel it's a cheap move to pick up points when it's pretty obvious your team is going to lose the game. If the home team would have been up by 15 points, I doubt that it would have been an issue.

Your thoughts? By the way, these teams are not rivals and are from two different cities (separated by at least 40 miles). Varsity game was a blowout for the home team.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:37pm
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I'd do nearly everything NOT to have a T in this instance -- send him back to report, ask if the scorer saw him at the table (yes=report), etc.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:43pm
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As long as the shooter doesn't have the ball, I'd send him back to report. It's going to look bad either way, but I'd try to avoid the T.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:45pm
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As I mentioned in the original post, I think the home team was trying to add some cheap points by even mentioning the "infraction". In their defense, it's a tall table and the people at the table sit kind of low. I believe that they did NOT see him sitting on the floor, and I believe that the player did NOT report in (his coach knows he didn't report in). When I went to the table, it was obvious that they wanted a "T" and they were not going to back off (the home coach wanted the T, too).

I don't want this to happen again!
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 03:45pm
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I agree with Bob - try not to call a T somehow. If the scorer saw the player at the table, then I am not calling a T. In fact, I am wondering by the scorer is so rigid about this - in a game that is almost over, with the play benefiting the vistors? Depending on my mood, I might say something to the scorer like "Get a Life!" Why would the home coach bring up that the play would be a T on his team? Maybe everone is super honest where your ref. "Please, call a T on my team."
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 04:12pm
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Sorry for the confusion. Let me clarify...
A is winning. A is the visiting team. A had the player enter the game without reporting in.
Home scorebook (B) keeper is the one who informed me that the player for A (visiting team) didn't report in.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 07:01pm
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I had a similar situation yesterday, soph. girls game. V has only 4 players to start the 2nd quarter. I stop my partner from giving the thrower the ball and ask the coach for a fifth player. The 5th player comes straight off the bench, onto the floor. We go to put the ball in play and the scorekeeper (the home team's AD) starts complaining loudly that she hasn't checked in. So I send her to check in. I can hear him muttering to people around him that it should have been a T. There's no way I'm calling a T on this.

Funny thing though, we have to hold up play at the start of the 3rd quarter 'cuz the home team only has four. The fifth player is off getting a drink. She comes from the corner of the court straight onto the floor. Nary a word from the home scorekeeper on that one.

Oh well, at least the jerk, I mean AD, knows that I'm gonna give his girls the same break I give the visiting team's.


[Edited by Back In The Saddle on Jan 25th, 2006 at 07:04 PM]
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 08:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by daveg144
Last night we had a strange situation that I'd like to prevent in the future, but I am not sure how we can.

23 seconds left in the game. The score is A-41 B-34. B is the VISITING team. Boys JV game (2 officials). A1 is fouled and goes to the line for 2 shots (double bonus). I am the trail and I see 2 players for A go to the table to substitute after the first free throw. Free throw goes in, table sounds the horn and I beckon the players onto the court. I step forward (towards the foul line) and raise my hand to make sure we don't administer the ball to the shooter until the substituted players are off the court. I then return to my spot for the second shot.

At this point, the scorer hits the buzzer and motions me over to the table. I get there and he says, "Number 40 never checked into the game." I asked him about the other substitute and he said he DID check in. The home coach hears this going on and says it's a technical foul. My partner comes over and I explain the situation to him. We agree that it's a techical foul (although we both feel it's a cheap shot by the HOME scorekeeper to try and steal some points). I explained the situation to the visiting coach and he was not happy at all. He then asked his player if he checked in and he said he did not. I should say that there is a large X on the floor in front of the official scorer.

B made both free throws and scored (after inbounding the ball). In the end, A won the game by 5 points.

After the game, I discussed the situation with the varsity officials. They asked if I could have motioned A #40 back off the court to report in. I told them I had no knowledge that he did NOT report when I waved him onto the court. When I see a player rush into the game and just sort of "wave" at the scorer, I'll tell them to go back and report (or often, the scorer will wave and say they got the player checked in).

Should I ask players if they are properly checked in? What's to say an official scorer could say a player didn't check in when in fact they DID check in (not likely, I know)? I still feel it's a cheap move to pick up points when it's pretty obvious your team is going to lose the game. If the home team would have been up by 15 points, I doubt that it would have been an issue.

Your thoughts? By the way, these teams are not rivals and are from two different cities (separated by at least 40 miles). Varsity game was a blowout for the home team.
If you waved them in, they reported. Scorer DOES need to be told to get a life.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 10:50pm
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I agree with Rich. If he's anywhere near the table and came in on your beckon, he checked in. The rule says, "report to the scorer, giving his/her number." It doesn't say "verbally" or specify any other way.

I hate to say it, but this *may* have been a setup, especially if the coach yelled very quickly. Its chicken$h!# if you ask me.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 11:02pm
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I couldn't tell you if any player I've ever waved in has reported or not.

He came to the X, you waved him in. He reported.

I don't see myself ever calling a T in this situation.
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Old Wed Jan 25, 2006, 11:13pm
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As described, this situation certainly sounds as though the official scorer may have behaved unethically. (I hope he wasn't an educator.)

Oftentimes, however, part of the problem lies in the fact that many players simply don't know how to report. Likely, they've never been told by their coach because he doesn't know either.

Coach just says, "Johnny, get in there for Tom NOW," so Johnny sprints for the scorers' table, and sees three, four, or ten people sitting there.

He may say his number to the general vicinity or he may not. Might just make eye contact with somebody who acknowledges him. The offical scorer (to whom he should report) may be recording a basket or that last foul and isn't looking up. Moreover, he probably isn't wearing stripes (at least not at high school games around these parts), so Johnny doesn't know who's in charge. And that giant X on the floor must mean something, but Johnny's not sure what.

When I'm the scorer, any player who approaches the table is deemed to have reported. I do what I can to educate them by getting them to state their number if circumstance allows. But as long as the players are making the effort to check in, they're good to go in my book.

The last thing the on-court officials need is a problem at the table.

Sven
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Old Thu Jan 26, 2006, 12:15am
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Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I couldn't tell you if any player I've ever waved in has reported or not.

He came to the X, you waved him in. He reported.

I don't see myself ever calling a T in this situation.
I whistle and beckon in all my subs. If I see someone heading to the table, I will frequently whistle/beckon them in a few steps from the X. I once had a scorer tell me that I couldn't do that. I think my response was something like, "You're forgetting who the referee is, I think."

The scorer just has to get the number. There is no specific way required.
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