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[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not even like to tell them that. I have found when the table uses the horn; they tend to use the horn too early when the sub is not even at the table (especially the home team). I would rather blow the whistle or bring the subs in on my own. Players need to know that the officials bring in the subs, not the horn or the table.

Peace

For the areas I have worked, it is all about communication. I will communicate what I want/need from the table, I will communicate when subs come in to the coach and I will communicate when the subs can come in to the captains.

Originally Posted by Richmsn

I don't beckon in this situation until there's a horn and by then there's a whistle in my mouth and I'm whistling in the subs.

We're consistent. We whistle in EVERY sub, except those that report during timeouts and intermissions.

A horn and a whistle? Make perfect (non) sense.

Can someone on the board with 15+ years of experience tell me if this whistling in subs thing was around years ago? If not, can anyone tell me how it is better than an appropriate horn and me yelling, "Subs?" So far, it doesn't make sense to me. The posts concerning consistency are all well and good, but I don't believe every crew does this all the time which essentially makes it no diffferent than a table doing it correctly all the time - I don't know, maybe I live in the only place where this isn't done perfectly. When I blow my whistle I want it to mean something and I've seen officials blow their whistle for so many things, the value of the whistle goes down. I've seen a loose ball that was going to be inbounded bouncing away and an official blew his whistle to tell the player to get it for him instead of using his mouth. To me, that is ridiculous, but that is what happens when we start using the whistle too much. For those in favor of using the whistle, what do you do if subs come in before you "blow them in." Do you blow a whistle and shoo them back to the table? Do you tell them to go back to the table? Consistency would be blowing your whistle and motioning them back; we are substituting a whistle for time-tested use of words aren't we?

This isn't absolute for me because if I don't have a horn, I will blow the whistle.

[Back In The Saddle]

Is it just me, or is this a lot of hand-wringing over a whistle?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Is it just me, or is this a lot of hand-wringing over a whistle?

I agree. Not everyone is going to agree because they come from so many different levels of acceptability for using the whistle.

Peace

[tomegun]

I love it when someone chooses to say it is a lot of "hand-wringing" over something when they run out of valid points to make or do not want to answer direct questions.

Uh...hello...aren't we disecting almost everything associated with basketball officiating on the Internet? We blew right past a lot of hand-wringing concerning many things a long time ago.

[jdw3018]

I'm joining the debate a little late here, but I used to agree with tomegun. No need for whistles on subs most of the time.

Then I moved and came to an area where those working the table generally aren't as consistent and qualified as where I was. Now I whistle for subs. It prevents a lot of problems. I haven't found that it devalues my whistle. It does prevent my over-anxious partners from getting the ball in play before subbing is complete.

I happen to believe this is a lot of "hand-wringing" and not because I'm out of arguements. Just do what's appropriate for your area. Whistling is definitely appropriate here.

[ca_rumperee]

If one is coaching and the officials are not getting your subs in without prompting, I think your stock as an official goes down.

If you are checking for subs, recognizing their presence, working well as a team to get subs in, catching that 'late add' sub after a made free-throw, etc. you don't get in the way of the coach's efforts.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

For the areas I have worked, it is all about communication. I will communicate what I want/need from the table, I will communicate when subs come in to the coach and I will communicate when the subs can come in to the captains.

A horn and a whistle? Make perfect (non) sense.

Can someone on the board with 15+ years of experience tell me if this whistling in subs thing was around years ago? If not, can anyone tell me how it is better than an appropriate horn and me yelling, "Subs?" So far, it doesn't make sense to me. The posts concerning consistency are all well and good, but I don't believe every crew does this all the time which essentially makes it no diffferent than a table doing it correctly all the time - I don't know, maybe I live in the only place where this isn't done perfectly. When I blow my whistle I want it to mean something and I've seen officials blow their whistle for so many things, the value of the whistle goes down. I've seen a loose ball that was going to be inbounded bouncing away and an official blew his whistle to tell the player to get it for him instead of using his mouth. To me, that is ridiculous, but that is what happens when we start using the whistle too much. For those in favor of using the whistle, what do you do if subs come in before you "blow them in." Do you blow a whistle and shoo them back to the table? Do you tell them to go back to the table? Consistency would be blowing your whistle and motioning them back; we are substituting a whistle for time-tested use of words aren't we?

This isn't absolute for me because if I don't have a horn, I will blow the whistle.

If they start in before the whistle I don't sweat it. They're in. When officials make a huuge deal of this, I just roll my eyes.

Well, I have over 20 years experience and IMO, this is the best system. The officials beckon the subs. The whistle gets the attention of the subs and the other officials. The horn is going to blow anyway, so I wait for it so my whistle isn't on top of the horn.

What's heard more easily? A quick blast of the whistle or you yelling "subs?" Why yell subs? We have a horn, right? Isn't that redundant?

It doesn't devalue the whistle. The whistle is a communicative device. It's not tweet, tweet, tweet, it's one quick tweet at the right time. Do you feel the whistle is devalued in college games, cause those guys are whistling those subs in.

And for those who are "by the book" guys, it's in the book now. How do you argue with that?

[tomegun]

Rich, all men's officials don't whistle in subs (some may) so I'm assuming you are talking about women's officials.
I don't always yell "subs" if the horn goes off and there is someone at the table I think my partners know what is going on - especially if I'm holding my hand up. But, since you bring up a valid point I will evaluate whether I really need to say anything or not once the horn goes off. See, I'm always open to criticism because there might be a better way; I just don't think blowing my whistle after a horn is a better way. I would also like to point out, if the table is crappy I will have no choice but to blow my whistle because there would be no horn or a horn at the wrong time. I've worked one college game in the last two years where the R said we are going to blow our whistle for subs, one! This isn't an absolute for me, but rather the fact that if the table is giving us appropriate horns I will not use my whistle for subs.
Do you work with people who hear the horn and don't turn to look? I haven't worked with any of those types of officials yet.