Is it Double Dribble?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I agree, but I have always wondered about this play, so, citations please.

Billy, do you own a rule book? If so, look it up. It sureasheck is an easy one to find.

Lah me......

[remargo]

from Hicksports.com:

Double dribble - Formally known as "discontinued dribble"; the dribble ends when the dribbler catches the ball, holds it, or touches it with both hands simultaneously. Once the dribbling has stopped, the player cannot dribble again until after another player has touched the ball. (There is one exception: A player may stop dribbling, take a shot at the basket, and begin dribbling again after gaining the rebound.)

from NCAA Rules:
Art. 1. A player shall not dribble a second time after the player’s first dribble
has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of:
a. A try for field goal.
b. A bat by an opponent.
c. A pass or fumble that has then touched or been touched by another
player.


Neither seems to support this as illegal; and the first rule quote specifies it as legal.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by remargo

from Hicksports.com:

Double dribble - Formally known as "discontinued dribble"; the dribble ends when the dribbler catches the ball, holds it, or touches it with both hands simultaneously. Once the dribbling has stopped, the player cannot dribble again until after another player has touched the ball. (There is one exception: A player may stop dribbling, take a shot at the basket, and begin dribbling again after gaining the rebound.)

from NCAA Rules:
Art. 1. A player shall not dribble a second time after the player’s first dribble
has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of:
a. A try for field goal.
b. A bat by an opponent.
c. A pass or fumble that has then touched or been touched by another
player.


Neither seems to support this as illegal; and the first rule quote specifies it as legal.

Geeze.

Hicksport = totally irrelevant. Nice try.

NCAA rules. Much better.

a. Not a try
b. Not a bat by opponent
c. Not a pass or fumble

IOW illegal.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by remargo

from Hicksports.com:

Double dribble - Formally known as "discontinued dribble";

. . . and actually known as an illegal dribble. . .

Dan_ref was right to reference the NCAA rule that you posted, but I think the basic question at the beginning of this thread is answered by this part:

from NCAA Rules:
Art. 1. A player shall not dribble a second time after the player’s first dribble
has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of:

A teammate -- or an opponent, for that matter -- placing a hand on the ball does not cause a loss of control. So no second dribble is allowed. Notice that even if the ball is batted (intentionally struck with the hand(s) ) by an opponent, the player may not dribble again unless the bat causes the ball to come loose.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

. . . and actually known as an illegal dribble. . .

Before your time, Skippy.....interrupted dribbles were known as discontinued dribbles. For a year or two, the FEd actually made discontinued(interrupted) dribbles illegal. They got rid of that one in a hurry.

[remargo]

We are not talking about touching the ball when it is held.

TWO HANDS ON THE BALL, AND DUAL POSSESSION.

[remargo]

We are not talking about touching the ball when it is held.

TWO HANDS ON THE BALL, AND DUAL POSSESSION.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by remargo

We are not talking about touching the ball when it is held.

TWO HANDS ON THE BALL, AND DUAL POSSESSION.

No offense, remargo, but you ARE missing it completely. You can't dribble again unless there is a loss of control. Read the rule again, which you yourself posted above.

Art. 1. A player shall not dribble a second time after the player’s first dribble
has ended, unless the player subsequently loses control because of:

Dual control is not loss of control.

[remargo]

this is the answer I have been looking for, but nobody has said it until now.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by remargo

We are not talking about touching the ball when it is held.

TWO HANDS ON THE BALL, AND DUAL POSSESSION.

Look, remargo, the original dribbler never LOST player control. A teammate grabbing the ball without the dribbler losing it is NOT a loss of player control. All 4 of his teammates, everybody on his bench and his Mommy up in the stands could grab the ball, and if the ball never came loose, the original dribbler still can't dribble again, by rule.

You obviously don't understand what we're talking about. Fine. If you don't have a clue what we're trying to explain to you, that's fine too. You're not an official. Just don't try to tell us that we're wrong when it comes to rules. That might make some of us (not me, I'm laid back and even tempered) just a tetch testy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by remargo

from Hicksports.com:

1) Double dribble - Formally known as "discontinued dribble"; the dribble ends when the dribbler catches the ball, holds it, or touches it with both hands simultaneously.

2) Once the dribbling has stopped, the player cannot dribble again until after another player has touched the ball.

I'm not even gonna waste time time going to some goofazz know-nothing website, sooooooo

1) An "interrupted dribble" was formerly known as a "discontinued dribble". A "discontinued dribble" was never known as a "double dribble"(the generic term for an illegal second dribble). There are completely different rules covering "discontinued(interrupted) dribbles" and "double dribbles". One is legal; one isn't.

2) Once the dribble has stopped, the player cannot dribble again unless that player LOSES CONTROL because of:
(a) a try for field goal.
(b) a touch by an opponent
(c) a pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player.
Note that the key words are "loses control". Player control is defined under the rules as holding or dribbling the ball. Merely touching the ball while a player is holding it does NOT cause that player to lose CONTROL, rules-wise. The ball has to LEAVE a player's hands before player control is lost. That's why it has ALWAYS been a violation if a player dribbles a second time as described in your original post.

Stoopid websites conveying completely wrong information re: rules really don't help us officials, podner. Don't take this the wrong way, but you'll be a much better coach if you'll learn the rules instead of propagating myths.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Billy, do you own a rule book? If so, look it up. It sureasheck is an easy one to find.

Jurassic Referee: I don't know how to view your post, real, funny, sarcastic, etc. I'm sure that after reading my posts on this Forum for about three years, you, with you're great basketball intellect (not sarcastic), know that I am an active, "approved", basketball official, who has a rule book.

If you're implying that I'm lazy, OK, you're welcome to your opinion, but I think that some of my posts will show you that I'm willing to actively participate, and give citations, not just post my opinion, when I feel that I may have something to contribute to the discussion.

The reason that I asked you for citations was that, even thought I consider myself to be pretty good with the rules, I'm a member of my local board's training committee, I have often wondered about this situation, that is, by rule, because I agreed with you. Since you seemed so sure of the rule I thought that you could put your finger on the citation in a matter of seconds, certainly a lot faster than I could.

This Forum provides me with answers to a lot of rule, interpretation, and mechanics information. It has made me a better official. Is it wrong of me to take advantage of this, and to hope that knowledgeable posters, like yourself, and a few others, will continue to post reliable and credible information?

I spend a lot of time with my rule book, but when I'm at my computer, I do have other interests, gardening, chemistry, astronomy, meteorology, financial investing, etc. I do not always have a rule book at my computer. At this time of year, it's often packed in my bag.