Delay of game?

[lpneck]

BV game, late in first quarter.

A1 catches the ball in transition by the sideline opposite the table about 30 feet from the basket, my partner, who is T opposite, calls a travel.

I had been L opposite and I am coming back up the sideline now to administer the throw-in. The player who has been called for the travel is holding the ball and has a bit of a confused "I can't believe you called that" look on his face.

I have my hands out to ask for the ball and say "Here you go 22." He looks at me and then decides to roll the ball to my partner, who is jogging down the floor to become new L. It was pretty clear to me that the player did this just to be difficult because he was irritated with the call.

My partner picked the ball up, blew his whistle, and called a delay of game warning.

Here is the thing.... from a game management standpoint, I LOVE the way this was handled. As I said, there is no doubt the kid did this on purpose to be difficult, and yet I don't feel a "T" would have been the appropriate way to handle it (he did, after all, give the ball immediately to an official- just not the one that was asking for it.) When the quarter ended, the coach sent the player out to shake my partners hand and apologized. There were absolutely no incidents the rest of the game- it went as smooth as could be.

The thing that I am a little bit apprehensive about is reporting this as a "delay of game" warning because of the rule change last year that ANY delay of game results in a technical foul after a warning. So if a player had, let's say, crossed the boundary on a throw-in after that, we would have gone straight to a T, and then I am afraid the first warning would have come back to bit us, because it isn't really one of the 4 types of delays.

Just wanted to get other's opinion's on how they might have handled the situation.

[bob jenkins]

I agree -- do not issue a warning for this.

I'd probably do something like make the kid come down and get the ball and give it to the correct official

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by lpneck

BV game, late in first quarter.

A1 catches the ball in transition by the sideline opposite the table about 30 feet from the basket, my partner, who is T opposite, calls a travel.

I had been L opposite and I am coming back up the sideline now to administer the throw-in. The player who has been called for the travel is holding the ball and has a bit of a confused "I can't believe you called that" look on his face.

I have my hands out to ask for the ball and say "Here you go 22." He looks at me and then decides to roll the ball to my partner, who is jogging down the floor to become new L. It was pretty clear to me that the player did this just to be difficult because he was irritated with the call.

My partner picked the ball up, blew his whistle, and called a delay of game warning.

Here is the thing.... from a game management standpoint, I LOVE the way this was handled. As I said, there is no doubt the kid did this on purpose to be difficult, and yet I don't feel a "T" would have been the appropriate way to handle it (he did, after all, give the ball immediately to an official- just not the one that was asking for it.) When the quarter ended, the coach sent the player out to shake my partners hand and apologized. There were absolutely no incidents the rest of the game- it went as smooth as could be.

The thing that I am a little bit apprehensive about is reporting this as a "delay of game" warning because of the rule change last year that ANY delay of game results in a technical foul after a warning. So if a player had, let's say, crossed the boundary on a throw-in after that, we would have gone straight to a T, and then I am afraid the first warning would have come back to bit us, because it isn't really one of the 4 types of delays.

Just wanted to get other's opinion's on how they might have handled the situation.

Had this once in a men's league rec game. A1 did a scissor step to get around B1: both feet changed spots before a dribble. Tweet. Travel. A1 rolls the ball to my P, about 40 feet away. Before the ball got 6 feet away, A1 also earned a T.

[Adam]

Agreed. Unless I have serious reason to believe he's honestly confused, this is a T.

[mbyron]

I still don't get why people are so shy to call a T. It's not as if you've called a forfeit or something - it's just a foul, for cryin' out loud.

[ma_ref]

I agree with the previous posts. No delay warning. No question (in my mind anyway) this is a T for unsportsmanlike behavior.

Once in a while during a dead ball you'll see a kid throw the ball to the wrong ref just because he/she genuinely did not see the other nearby official because (refs were switching/screened by other players/etc...).

Here you said the player clearly saw you...the same player who just had a call go against them...and had that look of anger/disbelief in their eyes. Go with the T. But if you still insist on the delay warning, then it should've been you blowing the whistle and issuing the warning, not your partner. Similar to when a coach is yelling at you for a call (or no-call), and your partner T's up the coach from across the floor, when in your mind, the coach hadn't quite stepped over the line just yet...

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I still don't get why people are so shy to call a T. It's not as if you've called a forfeit or something - it's just a foul, for cryin' out loud.

Yep, and like my other "just a foul's", I prefer them to be the correct call. A T here was absolutely not the correct call. It has nothing to do with being shy, thank you. It has to do with being right.

Bob- thanks for your input. That was pretty much what I thought. I think if I had been my partner I would have given the ball back to him, told him to go hand the ball to the other official (me), and said "don't even think about pulling a stunt like that again." I would have made sure the coach knew that we warned him after that.

Again, the way my partner handled it worked out extremely well, it was just the "official" warning that made me a little nervous. I think I would have liked it better if it had been more along the lines of an "unofficial" warning.

[ma_ref]

Originally Posted by lpneck

A T here was absolutely not the correct call.

I'm just wondering why you feel this is so? Based on what you described, the kid pretty much said "f u" to your face in front of the whole gym...just in a non-verbal way.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpneck

I have my hands out to ask for the ball and say "Here you go 22." He looks at me and then decides to roll the ball to my partner, who is jogging down the floor to become new L. It was pretty clear to me that the player did this just to be difficult because he was irritated with the call.

How is this not a T?

[Da Official]

No doubt a "T". If the kid wants to show up the official then the "T" is his prize.

Called this in Men's Rec before...haven't experienced this in school ball (yet).

[lpneck]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

How is this not a T?

Because it would have been a less effective method of addressing what occured than what our crew did.

The kid didn't drop the ball and leave it there for me to get. He didn't wing it away. As soon as I asked him for the ball, he immediately gave it up, he just gave it to the other official (who was the one who made the travel call to begin with, was one the same sideline I was, and about 20 feet away.) Do I think he did it on purpose because he had an attitude? Yes, I believe so. So what? We addressed it and had no further problems. You want to "T" every kid who has ever rolled their eyes or shaken their head in irritation after you have made a call against them?

Anyway, my issue has never been about whether or not this was a T. I am quite comfortable with how it was handled. It was about the delay of game that was called that wasn't one of the official types of delay.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Because it would have been a less effective method of addressing what occured than what our crew did.

I disagree. [shrug]

Originally Posted by lpneck

You want to "T" every kid who has ever rolled their eyes or shaken their head in irritation after you have made a call against them?

[sarcasm]Yeah, 'cause this is the same thing as an eyeroll.[/sarcasm]

Originally Posted by lpneck

Anyway, my issue has never been about whether or not this was a T. I am quite comfortable with how it was handled. It was about the delay of game that was called that wasn't one of the official types of delay.

Fair enough.
My point is that the rules don't allow for what your partner did, and doing it that way could lead to problems (thus your issue) later in the game. The rules have a very specific penalty in place for this action, and it's a T. It obviously worked in your game the way it was done; that doesn't mean it's the best method to use; or that it's wouldn't have been better to use the correct method.