Delay of game ?

[Chess Ref]

Fed rules. Visitors are on a little run to get back into game. They score again off a nice little pass and ensuing lay up. Kid who made the lay up has the ball drop in his lap and does the primal scream , slamming the ball down trick . Ball bounces almost to the roof. I come up with a delay of game warning. In hindsight any opinions on whether I should have or could have gone directly to a unsporting T ?

[Vinski]

Unsporting T

[SmokeEater]

I agree Unsporting T. Slam the ball hard enough to almost reach the roof and were shooting 2.

[tjones1]

Sounds like a taunt to me. I think I have a T here.

[Vinski]

To expand on this, would it be appropriate to also have a delay-of-game warning recorded (if one hasn’t already been issued) as well as giving the T?
I ask because my understanding is that if a defender reaches through the OOB vertical plane and smacks the ball out of the hands of the thrower-in during a throw-in that we give a T and record the delay as well (if one hasn’t already been given). So would we do the same type of thing here also?

[Bad Zebra]

Seems like the unsporting T is a singular event and is penalized as such. My gut tells me to not issue the delay warning for this event. That being said, seems like every time I go with my gut on these situations, it ends up being wrong...and that's why I keep coming back...to learn all that I don't know yet.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Vinski

To expand on this, would it be appropriate to also have a delay-of-game warning recorded (if one hasn’t already been issued) as well as giving the T?
I ask because my understanding is that if a defender reaches through the OOB vertical plane and smacks the ball out of the hands of the thrower-in during a throw-in that we give a T and record the delay as well (if one hasn’t already been given). So would we do the same type of thing here also?

That is not my understanding of the violation of the inbound plane, I thought they are two different situations. Player reaches through and touches the ball, automatic T....but after that if a player just reached through I would record a warning, not go straight to the T.....

So in the example I would just hit them with the T...

Soooo who's right??

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Seems like the unsporting T is a singular event and is penalized as such. My gut tells me to not issue the delay warning for this event. That being said, seems like every time I go with my gut on these situations, it ends up being wrong...and that's why I keep coming back...to learn all that I don't know yet.

Grabbing the ball: delay warning.

Bouncing it to the ceiling: Unsporting T.

Penalize them both.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Grabbing the ball: delay warning.

Bouncing it to the ceiling: Unsporting T.

Penalize them both.

OP says the "ball dropped in his lap"(?) Is that really a "grab"?

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Grabbing the ball: delay warning.

Bouncing it to the ceiling: Unsporting T.

Penalize them both.

But he didn't "grab the ball" in the example, it says it "fell into his lap" which happens quite a bit...granted they usually just let it go in which case I wouldn't have a delay...seems like it could be a case of piling on, no?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Vinski

To expand on this, would it be appropriate to also have a delay-of-game warning recorded (if one hasn’t already been issued) as well as giving the T?

Yes, if you gave the "T" for delaying the game instead of unsporting behavior. Rationale is in case book play 9.2.10. If the "T" was for unsporting behavior, there's no rules backing to give a warning along with the "T".

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

OP says the "ball dropped in his lap"(?) Is that really a "grab"?

The second he "grabs it out of his lap and slams it to the floor" it is.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, if you gave the "T" for delaying the game instead of unsporting behavior. Rationale is in case book play 9.2.10. If the "T" was for unsporting behavior, there's no rules backing to give a warning along with the "T".

So you may or may not have a delay depending on what your reasoning is for giving the T? In this case though, since you wouldn't normally go right to a T for delaying the game by catching the ball, do you really have a case for saying that the T was for delaying? Seems the better route to give the T for unsporting, no?

Is this the 2008 case book? 9.2.10 applies to the last second tactic?

[Vinski]

I’m not suggesting that the “primal screamer” violated the throw-in vertical plane rule in the OP. I’m suggesting that he caused the delay-of-game by not letting the other team quickly secure the ball to continue play, just like Chess Ref did do. But he also taunted with his over zealous act, thus deserving the T.
I only referenced the vertical plane violation as an example of the warning and a T being issued for the same act.

9.2.10 SITUATION: A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1's hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction. RULING: B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Vinski

I’m not suggesting that the “primal screamer” violated the throw-in vertical plane rule in the OP. I’m suggesting that he caused the delay-of-game by not letting the other team quickly secure the ball to continue play, just like Chess Ref did do. But he also taunted with his over zealous act, thus deserving the T.
I only referenced the vertical plane violation as an example of the warning and a T being issued for the same act.

9.2.10 SITUATION: A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1's hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction. RULING: B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach.

9.2.10 casebook which is where that example comes from is for last second tactic though....9.2.10 rule book, there is no mention of a team warning also being recorded...so do you extrapolate the last second tactic example to the rest of the game in this case?