gps-8 what would you do?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by crew
this is to:
dan_ref, mick, mark t. denucci, chuckelias, bktballref, and mark dexter.
why specifically would you do as you stated in your post and not try to correct an obvious mistake?

bktballref-"if john has a travel then i have a travel" this statement shows that you respect and trust john clougherty. but wouldnt you offer help if he obviously missed an out of bounds play?

on the other side: jpageref, specifically why would you do as you stated in your post instead of putting the ball in play and moving on?

just curious.......

As a fellow graduate of that fine institution of higher learning as well a Division I-AA football power (go Youngstown State University Penquins), if John Cloughty has a travel, so do I. And we will talk about it later.

[eroe39]

If I called this travel with 5 seconds left in a tie game and my partner told me in the locker room after the game that he clearly saw it was deflected and choose not to come in and tell me I would be extremely upset. Step up and be a good partner and come to him. This is similar to an out of bounds call that is clearly missed. Obviously, we can not come to our partners every time we know a play is missed, such as a foul, but on this situation it can be worked out nice and clean. Don't let the losing coach hang his hat on this blown call and blast the officials in the press conference. If the play is overruled the coach it went against will be upset at first but will have nothing to say about it in the press conference because the replay will clearly show the ball was defelected by the defense. Use big picture officiating.

[crew]

Originally posted by mick
[QUOTEcrew,
As an official, I do not assume I am perfect on any play.
If I were to assume perfection, I wouldn't be me. I may be you!
mick

mick,
i am not trying to persecute your officiating. i gave a scenario with absolutes and was curious as to how other refs would handle the situation and why!

i am not insinuating that you miss calls. just wanting to know your reasoning?

let me redirect the scenario: same play but the ball is obviously tipped out of bounds by duke and your partner signalled and said duke ball. what would you do in this scenario?

[latterdaysaint]

I agree 100% with you on how to handle this situation. I bothers me as an official, that one partner with more information on the call would not speak up. I respect this behavior and the players respect it also.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by eroe39
Use big picture officiating.

Eli,if you get a chance,please check out the thread from 2/7 called GPS-7--The Big Picture.Would you call crew's handling of that situation "big picture officiating",also?I'm just wondering what "big picture" encompasses.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Feb 24th, 2002 at 05:28 AM]

[mick]

Originally posted by crew

mick,
i am not trying to persecute your officiating. i gave a scenario with absolutes and was curious as to how other refs would handle the situation and why!

i am not insinuating that you miss calls. just wanting to know your reasoning?

let me redirect the scenario: same play but the ball is obviously tipped out of bounds by duke and your partner signalled and said duke ball. what would you do in this scenario?

crew,
Who's line?
I do not equate a tipped ball play to a judgement for traveling.
For the tipped ball, I will quickly go and tell my partner.
mick

mick

[Edited by mick on Feb 24th, 2002 at 06:42 AM]

[BBarnaky]

If I have knowledge I am coming to my partners and giving the info to him. I did this on an out of bounds call this weekend. Nothing different here. Just trying to get the plays right. No egos. Because there might be a day when that same guy that I helped out will come and save my day when I goof something up or didn't see a play completely from start to finish.

I had a charge with 39 seconds left in a college game this weekend. The charge went against the team down 5 points. I would hope that if my partners thought that the ball was released they would have come to me and say hey I am 100% sure the ball was released and I will take responsibility for the play. However, I was lucky (or maybe even good enough) on this play and got it correct. But if I wasn't I hope they would step up and say we better score the basket and call a push and go to the other end and shoot the penalty if needed.

See the Kobe Bryant buzzer beater earlier last week. The two officials in lead and trail were on the ball side. The slot official away from the play came over and added information by saying I am totally 1000% sure it was still in Kobe's hands (in this case fingertips) and the shot is no good. Great team work officiating that applies to this particular thread.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Dang it, isn't anybody listening. How can you not trust the judgement of a graduate (John C.) of Youngstown State University. And I am not trying to make fun of my alma mater. We Penquins just have great football teams every year and now The Ohio State University will have championship football teams because we have lent the Buckeyes our coach.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by eroe39
If I called this travel with 5 seconds left in a tie game and my partner told me in the locker room after the game that he clearly saw it was deflected and choose not to come in and tell me I would be extremely upset. Step up and be a good partner and come to him.

Eli, what if your parnter just flat misses the call. He had the wrong pivot foot, for example. Are you still going to him and tell him the player didn't travel? According to the posts here, there wouldn't be any difference.

Originally posted by BBarnaky
I had a charge with 39 seconds left in a college game this weekend. The charge went against the team down 5 points. I would hope that if my partners thought that the ball was released they would have come to me and say hey I am 100% sure the ball was released and I will take responsibility for the play.

This apples to oranges. What if they came to you and said, "That wasn't a charge, it was a block."? What are you going to do? There is a difference.

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Dang it, isn't anybody listening. How can you not trust the judgement of a graduate (John C.) of Youngstown State University. And I am not trying to make fun of my alma mater. We Penquins just have great football teams every year and now The Ohio State University will have championship football teams because we have lent the Buckeyes our coach.

Mark, John must be the busiest official in the country. Very time I turn the TV on, there he is!

[BBarnaky]

This terminology is called team work officiating. I guess it would be a somewhat new term depending on where you live in the country. I would suppose if you lived in the western part of the country you might not understand or have been exposed to this philosophy.

Are we in this to get plays right or pat the coaches and/or our partners on their backs? If I called a travel and a partner of mine clearly saw the ball was tipped from behind, I would change the call. ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR THE GAME!!!!!

I had this very similar play when I first started officiating. I was working a 2 person game in an AAU 14 and Under tourney. The ball was tipped and the referee from behind called a travel in transition and sent it the other way. Of course, I didn't change it because HE WAS A VETERAN OFFICIAL and all that stuff. Plus, I had no experience, education and training back then. NOW I WOULD CLEARLY CHANGE THE CALL. ITS THE PROPER THING TO DO FOR THE GAME.

[BktBallRef]

Does that mean you can't or won't answer my question?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
This terminology is called team work officiating. I guess it would be a somewhat new term depending on where you live in the country. I would suppose if you lived in the western part of the country you might not understand or have been exposed to this philosophy.

Well, now, Mr. B. Barnaky, thanks so much fer explaynin' this to us'n's. Way Owt West heer, we're still diggin' the ball owt of the peach basket after each and ev'ry shot. When we're ready to jet on up into the 21st cintery, we'all will be givin' you a call to hop yer pony and ride on owt this-a-way. This kind'a larnin' is jest more than we kin handle all at onct-like.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Well, now, Mr. B. Barnaky, thanks so much fer explaynin' this to us'n's. Way Owt West heer, we're still diggin' the ball owt of the peach basket after each and ev'ry shot. When we're ready to jet on up into the 21st cintery, we'all will be givin' you a call to hop yer pony and ride on owt this-a-way. This kind'a larnin' is jest more than we kin handle all at onct-like.

Juulie,you just broke me up-at 4:30am.Just woke up and I hope I didn't wake my wife up laughing.The judge from France awards you a 6.0!Btw,I think I first heard about the concept of "team work officiating" in my first year of reffing-which was 43 years ago.I guess I'm just lucky that I FINALLY found someone with the knowledge to make me finally understand the philosophy.

[BBarnaky]

Just trying to share information to those who don't understand the concept. Obviously, from the snide and sarcastic remarks above, you have heard of this terminology before.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BBarnaky
Obviously, from the snide and sarcastic remarks above...

Okay, okay, I'm sorry. I was not in a very good mood when I got home from my games yesterday, and I guess I sort of over-reacted. You may not have intended to sound condescending, but I got an earful yesterday from a coach who I guess doesn't have a lot of respect for women. Your male "self-confidence" felt like more of same. I'm just having a hard time feeling like a member of a team when the coaches, and most fans, all assume I'm incompetent before the game even starts, and beg my partner to "help me out." From this point on, I can't win, and my partner can't lose. It was not a good day on the bball floor.

[Edited by rainmaker on Feb 25th, 2002 at 10:36 AM]