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Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 11:40pm
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Technical - Ejection

JV Boys Game in Massachusetts. (not that it really matters where) The game is in OT with a few seconds left on the clock. Team A is down by 1. A1 drives the lane, goes up for the lay-up, makes the shot, draws the foul and when he lands, hits the official in the face who was bending down under the basket to pick up the ball upon blowing the whistle for the foul against B1. Official regains his composure (or not), is obviously pi$$ed off for being hit by A1, calls a technical on A1 and ejects him from the game. Team A coach must now replace ejected A1 with another player in order to complete ejected A1's single foul shot. A2 fails to make the single free throw. Team B produces a player to shoot the two technical shots and B1 makes both winning the game. A1 inadvertently came down on the ref with no malice, intent or deliberation. Was this the right call? should the "T" have warranted an ejection?
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Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 11:51pm
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The official that was there has to make that judgment. I would like to hear the official's side of the story. There side is really the only one that matters in this case.

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Old Thu Jan 24, 2008, 11:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyc8037
JV Boys Game in Massachusetts. (not that it really matters where) The game is in OT with a few seconds left on the clock. Team A is down by 1. A1 drives the lane, goes up for the lay-up, makes the shot, draws the foul and when he lands, hits the official in the face who was bending down under the basket to pick up the ball upon blowing the whistle for the foul against B1. Official regains his composure (or not), is obviously pi$$ed off for being hit by A1, calls a technical on A1 and ejects him from the game. Team A coach must now replace ejected A1 with another player in order to complete ejected A1's single foul shot. A2 fails to make the single free throw. Team B produces a player to shoot the two technical shots and B1 makes both winning the game. A1 inadvertently came down on the ref with no malice, intent or deliberation. Was this the right call? should the "T" have warranted an ejection?

BillyC:

Of course I wasn't there to see the play, but based upon your description I can't see how this can be anything but an accidental collision between two people within a confined space.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. What Rut just said before my post.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 12:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyc8037
JV Boys Game in Massachusetts. (not that it really matters where) The game is in OT with a few seconds left on the clock. Team A is down by 1. A1 drives the lane, goes up for the lay-up, makes the shot, draws the foul and when he lands, hits the official in the face who was bending down under the basket to pick up the ball upon blowing the whistle for the foul against B1. Official regains his composure (or not), is obviously pi$$ed off for being hit by A1, calls a technical on A1 and ejects him from the game. Team A coach must now replace ejected A1 with another player in order to complete ejected A1's single foul shot. A2 fails to make the single free throw. Team B produces a player to shoot the two technical shots and B1 makes both winning the game. A1 inadvertently came down on the ref with no malice, intent or deliberation. Was this the right call? should the "T" have warranted an ejection?
No, it most certainly was not the right call. The official blew it big time and cost team A the game.

There should not have been a technical foul, let alone an ejection.

The official has no need to pick up a basketball while the play is still going on. If s/he does pick up the ball, do it away from players and well after the play is over.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 05:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee
No, it most certainly was not the right call. The official blew it big time and cost team A the game.

There should not have been a technical foul, let alone an ejection.

The official has no need to pick up a basketball while the play is still going on. If s/he does pick up the ball, do it away from players and well after the play is over.
See what Rut said above?

That's the only answer possible in these types of situations imo also.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 07:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
See what Rut said above?

That's the only answer possible in these types of situations imo also.
While I don't disagree with you that judgment is/was used, like all posts, I left out the "if it happened as it was written", which is valid on any play posted here.

I don't mind having a line that places officials responsible for doing dumb things.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 07:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I don't mind having a line that places officials responsible for doing dumb things.
Me neither. I learned a long time ago though to make absolutely sure that the officials actually did do a dumb thing. The only way that you can be sure is to get a report from the officials.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 07:55am
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
Me neither. I learned a long time ago though to make absolutely sure that the officials actually did do a dumb thing. The only way that you can be sure is to get a report from the officials.
Agreed. What's unfortunate is that there is so rarely a neutral 3rd party present.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:21am
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Why was the official bending and picking up ball when they should have been making preliminary signal and reporting the foul to the table?

Sounds like he kicked it more than once - but as stated before - I wasn't there to know exactly what happened or what was said.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyc8037
JV Boys Game in Massachusetts. (not that it really matters where) The game is in OT with a few seconds left on the clock. Team A is down by 1. A1 drives the lane, goes up for the lay-up, makes the shot, draws the foul and when he lands, hits the official in the face who was bending down under the basket to pick up the ball upon blowing the whistle for the foul against B1. Official regains his composure (or not), is obviously pi$$ed off for being hit by A1, calls a technical on A1 and ejects him from the game. Team A coach must now replace ejected A1 with another player in order to complete ejected A1's single foul shot. A2 fails to make the single free throw. Team B produces a player to shoot the two technical shots and B1 makes both winning the game. A1 inadvertently came down on the ref with no malice, intent or deliberation. Was this the right call? should the "T" have warranted an ejection?
I have a hard time believing this play happened the way it is descibed. A1 drives the lane and makes a layup. The official bends over to pick up the basketball and A1 accidently comes down on him?

First, in all my years I have yet to see a ball beat the player to the floor on a layup. A dunk yes, but a layup no. The player always returns to the floor first.

Second, the positioning of the official is wrong. Which of us stand underneath a basket while the game is going on? Since this is a JV game, I would assume it is a two person crew. The Lead would be wider and deeper during play.

Sorry, I cannot buy what is described in the OP. There must be another side to the story.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:34am
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I have a question. Was this kid defying gravity? How long was he in the air that the official had time to pick up the ball off the floor and the shooter landed and ran into him? That sounds really weird.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chartrusepengui
Why was the official bending and picking up ball when they should have been making preliminary signal and reporting the foul to the table?

Sounds like he kicked it more than once - but as stated before - I wasn't there to know exactly what happened or what was said.
Exactly, I am having a hard time visioning this at all. OP needs to obtain video for us to go forward. Disappointed in Juggling Referrees' first response.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 08:55am
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player falls as well.

after A1 made his lay-up, he twisted as he landed, fell off balance and then, (after falling himself and prescribing to all laws of gravity) struck the official. I have heard from several officials on this call with a vast different degree of opinions. From; "you always give a "T" when any player touches an official" to; "you muster consider intent, demeanor and situation", to; "If it's accidental ignore", to "Always eject". If it ever happens to me, (it did once during a MS game but I was able to "catch" the player and stop him from hitting the floor) I'd like to ensure that I make the right call, or, no call as I cannot find a similar case play or situation.
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyc8037
after A1 made his lay-up, he twisted as he landed, fell off balance and then, (after falling himself and prescribing to all laws of gravity) struck the official. I have heard from several officials on this call with a vast different degree of opinions. From; "you always give a "T" when any player touches an official" to; "you muster consider intent, demeanor and situation", to; "If it's accidental ignore", to "Always eject". If it ever happens to me, (it did once during a MS game but I was able to "catch" the player and stop him from hitting the floor) I'd like to ensure that I make the right call, or, no call as I cannot find a similar case play or situation.
Stop listening to those who say "Always eject" and "Always T".
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Old Fri Jan 25, 2008, 09:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indianaref
Exactly, I am having a hard time visioning this at all. OP needs to obtain video for us to go forward. Disappointed in Juggling Referrees' first response.
There is only one "r" and no space between the g and R.

Edit: This case interested me because I once witnessed a game once where a referee did cause a player injury: the official was way out of position and took a player down with him, resulting in crutches for the player.

In the OP, it says that A1 was airborne when he hit the official. This is, always has been, and always will be the officials fault.
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Last edited by JugglingReferee; Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:46am.
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