Backcourt violation rule change? (over and back)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

zoiks!! in a girls game?
Maybe we start a closely guarded count...

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

...ignorance on my part.

wurd!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

...ignorance on my part.

Amazingly, I find this to be the case with a large number of officials from CA. Since all the games that they work and see on TV (NCAA and NBA) employ a shot clock, the concept of conducting a basketball game without one is hard for them to comprehend.

They are flat-out shocked to learn that 43 of the 50 states do NOT use a shot clock for HS games!

Hopefully, these last two posts blew your mind this morning. It's always fun to have one of those eye-opening moments.

[jdw3018]

I remember how shocked I was to learn that there were states that do use the shot clock in HS basketball. It was just a foreign concept to me!

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Scooby

A jump stop is defined by the rule book

As Dan_ref pointed out, "jump stop" is not defined in the NFHS rulebook, although it does describe both types of jump stops in the traveling definition.

Some people (mostly coaches, in my experience) define a jump stop as: jump, catch, land on two feet simultaneously.

Other people (mostly officials, in my experience) define a jump stop as: jump, catch, land on one foot, jump, land on two feet simultaneously.

It's important to understand the distinction and to understand which definition a person is using.

[ca_rumperee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Amazingly, I find this to be the case with a large number of officials from CA. Since all the games that they work and see on TV (NCAA and NBA) employ a shot clock, the concept of conducting a basketball game without one is hard for them to comprehend.

They are flat-out shocked to learn that 43 of the 50 states do NOT use a shot clock for HS games!

Hopefully, these last two posts blew your mind this morning. It's always fun to have one of those eye-opening moments.

Your post made me realize that for the CYO games that I do, there is no shot clock, so applying Calif HS girls rules exception is inappropriate. Just checked with my CYO assignor and got it confirmed that we play boys hs rules for girls games.

Been doing it wrong all season. I think other refs have as well.
Now THAT is eye-opening!

Thanks for jogging me thinker. I feel free to respond here without reservation, knowing I'll get my *** kicked on occasion with the thought that it will accelerate my learning process --- which I think we just proved, it has.

Wert.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by ca_rumperee

I feel free to respond here without reservation, knowing I'll get my *** kicked on occasion with the thought that it will accelerate my learning process --- which I think we just proved, it has.

I'm glad you've taken this approach. It's exactly how I've used this forum. I see questions and post my answer/response/thought. Most of the time I'm correct. Every once in a while I kick it. But I know I'll get corrected if I do. It's the best way for me to learn.

It would be easy to sit back and wait for responses to make sure I don't make a mistake, and I'd look less a fool for doing so, but I don't learn as well that way.

I'm still in that phase where I know the rules well, and will answer most any question, but am many times only 90% certain. And sometimes I'm wrong. I need to get to where I'm 100% certain as often as possible, and posting/dialoguing/debating here is one of the best ways I can do it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

As Dan_ref pointed out, "jump stop" is not defined in the NFHS rulebook, although it does describe both types of jump stops in the traveling definition.

Some people (mostly coaches, in my experience) define a jump stop as: jump, catch, land on two feet simultaneously.

Other people (mostly officials, in my experience) define a jump stop as: jump, catch, land on one foot, jump, land on two feet simultaneously.

It's important to understand the distinction and to understand which definition a person is using.

My HS coach taught the jump stop as ending our dribble as we jumped off of one foot and then landed simultaneously on two. He never said anything about pivoting after that. I don't know if he knew the legality of that or not.

[Back In The Saddle]

The coach was definitely HL_YankinYerChain

[lukealex]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are a new official, so perhaps you are just making a joke or perhaps you aren't aware that CA is one of the very few states that employs a shot clock at the HS level and hence doesn't have a bc 10-sec count in girls games, but does have a closely guarded count there. Most of the rest of the states in the nation don't do it the way that CA does.

I just moved out to CA, well 5 months ago now. Didn't get signed up in time for HS games though, just starting to do wreck league games to stay fresh. I didn't know about the shot clock rule, will be interesting to use next year. If anybody knows of any other contacts for wreck leagues out here it would be greatly appreciated also.

In response to the OP, remember if the same jump stop happens to be that one foot lands (at the same time) fully in the FC and one in the BC then the player uses the FC foot as the pivot, once s/he picks up the BC foot, that foot must come down in the FC or it will be an over and back violation. Just something else to add in.